Jesus

Doctor Phibes

What’s really sad is Trump’s people pandering to a whack job like RFK over this issue in order to gain the crunchy nut flake vote.

LuFins Dad

I think you’ll probably see them remove the protections for the vaccine manufacturers. Depending on the limits, I don’t find that unreasonable. There will also likely be some new studies. Not sure that I like that very much. I think we all can agree that we’ve seen how bias can affect studies…

Rich

Yeah, sort of hoping the blanket anti-vax stuff doesn't actually make it into any meaningful policy decisions.

tbh, I'd even been wondering if the RFK/Trump alliance could make it all the way through to the election...Kennedy has a real 'big business=bad' kind of way about him. How long into an administration could it be before heads but, and Trumps latest best bud, becomes another 'lame brain' that had to get fired?

Doctor Phibes

I think it’s highly possible he’ll dump RFK once he becomes inconvenient. Let’s hope so, at least.

“RFK, go away, what more do I have to say?”

Horace

After the pro-vax side used its rhetorical currency to force people to take the jab, on penalty of economic death, the appeal of the anti-vax side spread far wider than crunchy soccer moms.

Doctor Phibes

@Horace said in Jesus:

After the pro-vax side used its rhetorical currency to force people to take the jab, on penalty of economic death, the appeal of the anti-vax side spread far wider than crunchy soccer moms.

Yeah, that was definitely a stupid strategic move.

jon-nyc

@LuFins-Dad said in Jesus:

I think you’ll probably see them remove the protections for the vaccine manufacturers. Depending on the limits, I don’t find that unreasonable.

That’s legislation, not executive action. I don’t know enough about it but let’s do gun manufacturers too.

There will also likely be some new studies. Not sure that I like that very much.

As long as it’s P4 (post-marketing, IOW they don’t pause immunizing babies in the mean time).

I think we all can agree that we’ve seen how bias can affect studies…

Far less common in interventional drug studies because the entire statistical analysis has to be pre-registered with and approved by the FDA. In the few instances where we’ve seen pharma cheat it’s full on felonious shit like hiding data, not putting the thumb on the scale with a little p-fishing.

LuFins Dad

@jon-nyc said in Jesus:

@xenon said in Jesus:

@Jolly said in Jesus:

Solution: Don't lie to people.

Completely agree - you shouldn't lie to people. But the solution is a couple of decades in vaccine science purgatory to atone for the CDC's politics in 2020? (under Trump's nose, no less).

Be more explicit - the CDC lied about masks therefore we’re going to put a generation of children at risk, many of whom will die.

Can someone - anyone - walk me through the logic here? Jolly?

Again? Okay…

“Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data,” Walensky - March 30, 2021
Masking kids is effective… Throughout the last 4 years. There are still people trying it.
Myocarditis? Of course not! AND COVID poses a serious risk to younger children.
Lab leak? Of course not! It was bats… Or possibly Pangolins. From the market in Wuhan. Just go past the institute studying Coronaviruses and make a left.
It is dangerous to take ivermectin! Which is a horse dewormer!
Don’t mask! Okay, we take that back, mask if you feel comfortable. Wait… Dear God! Wrap your face in plastic wrap if you have to!
Herd immunity can be achieved at 70%… No, wait, 80%… All while having evidence they needed 60%.
The rate of hospitalizations in children is rising! Referring to a small statistical blip weeks before that had already settled and gone to prior levels and even lower.
6 feet! The science tells us 6 feet! There was no fucking science showing that..

Shall I go on?

Mik

Yeah, the herd immunity thing didn’t age well.

jon-nyc

@LuFins-Dad said in Jesus:

Shall I go on?

Yes. I get that some health professionals said or did things people don’t like. But I can’t complete the logical leap from ‘I don’t like what some health professionals said or did’ to ‘therefore let’s stop immunizing kids and let some die from preventable disease’

Is that some kind of revenge? ‘Hey, Mr Redfield, screw your masking lies, here’s some dead kids so fuck you’.

Doctor Phibes

@89th said in Jesus:

For autism, I have no idea but I bet the rates are increasing because of increased awareness and finer-tuned diagnosis requirements.

I bet there's positive correlation between mass shootings, being gay and vaccinations too.

The damage caused is almost certainly indescribable

Aqua Letifer

@jon-nyc said in Jesus:

@LuFins-Dad said in Jesus:

Shall I go on?

Yes. I get that some health professionals said or did things people don’t like. But I can’t complete the logical leap from ‘I don’t like what some health professionals said or did’ to ‘therefore let’s stop immunizing kids and let some die from preventable disease’

Is that some kind of revenge? ‘Hey, Mr Redfield, screw your masking lies, here’s some dead kids so fuck you’.

I'm quite surprised you can't see this.

Dr. Jackass is my PCP.
Dr. Jackass told me that if I wear a mask and get immunized, I wouldn't get COVID and wouldn't give it to anyone.
I got COVID and gave it to my family. Dr. Jackass fed me a plate of bullshit.
What Dr. Jackass told me mirrors what other doctors online and in the news are saying. But I know that's not true because I got COVID and gave it to my family.
Dr. Jackass, doctors online and in the news also said to get vaccinated. But we all know they're full of shit now, so probably they're full of shit about this, too.

At the risk of being obvious—which I think we've thrown out the window already—I don't agree with the above, but for me it makes all the sense in the world how someone could be convinced of this line of reasoning.

jon-nyc

Wow. You give them less credit than I do. But if that’s the logic - they were wrong about one thing ergo they’re wrong about everything- why stop at vaccines? Aren’t they full of shit about chemotherapy and antibiotics too?

Mik

I didn't believe much of anything that was said at the time. No one had any reliable knowledge of the virus and its effects. All we knew was the nightmare in Italy and then NYC. It's very easy to sit back now and opine about overreaction, but the very real and not unreasonable fear was overwhelming the system. I know that I felt I CANNOT get this disease. Now I’ve had it four times.

As it turns out I only knew one person it killed directly, but I know my beloved MIL was basically imprisoned for two years which accelerated her dementia.

Axtremus

One big reason to not reelect Trump:

He does not attract the best and brightest to work for him.

More likely than not, Trump repels good talents and attract bad/incompetent people.

Mik

Stick to the topic, Ax.

Jolly

@jon-nyc said in Jesus:

@xenon said in Jesus:

@Jolly said in Jesus:

Solution: Don't lie to people.

Completely agree - you shouldn't lie to people. But the solution is a couple of decades in vaccine science purgatory to atone for the CDC's politics in 2020? (under Trump's nose, no less).

Be more explicit - the CDC lied about masks therefore we’re going to put a generation of children at risk, many of whom will die.

Can someone - anyone - walk me through the logic here? Jolly?

The CDC lied about masks.
The CDC interjected themselves into the doctor/patient sphere and told doctors what they could do and what they couldn't do.

Look, I'm a huge proponent of public health and the powers needed to try to keep people safe. But the government went beyond where they should have.

The CDC was not clear about the risk factors or efficacy of the COVID vaccines.
The CDC lied about the probable origin of the Wuhan Flu.
The CDC lied about funding for Gain Of Function research in Wuhan.
The government fired people for not being vaccinated, long after we knew the initial vaccine was no longer effective against the newer strains
Government officials were having dinner in fancy restaurants, when average joes were under quarantine.

I could go on, but the trust problem has been created by the government. They've lied so much, any health information is now viewed by the public with a jaundiced eye.

It's like the wife that finds a pair of black lace panties in her wash that doesn't belong to her...The husband can say whatever he wants, the wife ain't buying it.

Axtremus

@Jolly said in Jesus:

@jon-nyc said in Jesus:

@xenon said in Jesus:

@Jolly said in Jesus:

Solution: Don't lie to people.

Completely agree - you shouldn't lie to people. But the solution is a couple of decades in vaccine science purgatory to atone for the CDC's politics in 2020? (under Trump's nose, no less).

Be more explicit - the CDC lied about masks therefore we’re going to put a generation of children at risk, many of whom will die.

Can someone - anyone - walk me through the logic here? Jolly?

The CDC lied about masks.

The CDC interjected themselves into the doctor/patient sphere and told doctors what they could do and what they couldn't do.

Look, I'm a huge proponent of public health and the powers needed to try to keep people safe. But the government went beyond where they should have.

The CDC was not clear about the risk factors or efficacy of the COVID vaccines.

The CDC lied about the probable origin of the Wuhan Flu.

The CDC lied about funding for Gain Of Function research in Wuhan.

The government fired people for not being vaccinated, long after we knew the initial vaccine was no longer effective against the newer strains

Government officials were having dinner in fancy restaurants, when average joes were under quarantine.

Is any of the above, or their sum total, enough to warrant putting a generation of children at risk -- for many of whom the risk is death?

Axtremus

@Mik said in Jesus:

Stick to the topic, Ax.

I am on topic -- a transition co-chair publicly spouting anti-vaxx rhetoric is not a good talent for the job.

Jolly

@Axtremus said in Jesus:

@Jolly said in Jesus:

@jon-nyc said in Jesus:

@xenon said in Jesus:

@Jolly said in Jesus:

Solution: Don't lie to people.

Completely agree - you shouldn't lie to people. But the solution is a couple of decades in vaccine science purgatory to atone for the CDC's politics in 2020? (under Trump's nose, no less).

Be more explicit - the CDC lied about masks therefore we’re going to put a generation of children at risk, many of whom will die.

Can someone - anyone - walk me through the logic here? Jolly?

The CDC lied about masks.

The CDC interjected themselves into the doctor/patient sphere and told doctors what they could do and what they couldn't do.

Look, I'm a huge proponent of public health and the powers needed to try to keep people safe. But the government went beyond where they should have.

The CDC was not clear about the risk factors or efficacy of the COVID vaccines.

The CDC lied about the probable origin of the Wuhan Flu.

The CDC lied about funding for Gain Of Function research in Wuhan.

The government fired people for not being vaccinated, long after we knew the initial vaccine was no longer effective against the newer strains

Government officials were having dinner in fancy restaurants, when average joes were under quarantine.

Is any of the above, or their sum total, enough to warrant putting a generation of children at risk -- for many of whom the risk is death?

How important is trust?

The New Coffee Room

Jesus