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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Is a longer train more likely to derail?

Is a longer train more likely to derail?

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by George K
    #1

    tl;dr

    Yes.

    Replacing two 50-car trains with one 100-car train raises the aggregate odds of derailment by 11 percent, the study concluded—even accounting for an overall decrease in the number of trains running. A 200-car train would have a 24 percent increase compared with four 50-car trains, according to the study team’s calculations.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/longer-freight-trains-are-more-likely-to-derail/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0qaW-FhgEV5QnSqmf5ldF1JHiUiDDEnHAifxwwojMbqVleCZPUFmeq11w_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

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    • LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins DadL Offline
      LuFins Dad
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Simple statistics say yes, even if there’s not a cumulative effect (which there is).

      If every car has a percentage chance of derailing, let’s call it X, then a 5 car train will have a 5X chance of derailing. A 50 car train would have a 50X chance…

      But more than that, each train car adds mass to the overall train, which acts as a force multiplier for every car you add.

      The Brad

      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
      • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

        Simple statistics say yes, even if there’s not a cumulative effect (which there is).

        If every car has a percentage chance of derailing, let’s call it X, then a 5 car train will have a 5X chance of derailing. A 50 car train would have a 50X chance…

        But more than that, each train car adds mass to the overall train, which acts as a force multiplier for every car you add.

        George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by George K
        #3

        @LuFins-Dad said in Is a longer train more likely to derail?:

        Simple statistics say yes, even if there’s not a cumulative effect (which there is).

        If every car has a percentage chance of derailing, let’s call it X, then a 5 car train will have a 5X chance of derailing. A 50 car train would have a 50X chance…

        But more than that, each train car adds mass to the overall train, which acts as a force multiplier for every car you add.

        Hmmm....

        Not sure if that works. If you take 5 INDIVIDUAL cars, then, of course, they would have 5 times the chance of derailing of a single car.

        But, it's not that simple.

        There are other forces - pull on the couplers? - that might, might, have a stabilizing effect preventing the derailment of any individual car in a long train.

        Does increased mass increase the risk of derailment? Once again, one might argue that an increased mass has other unrecognized effects. Is a heavier car more stable on the rails?

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          @LuFins-Dad said in Is a longer train more likely to derail?:

          Simple statistics say yes, even if there’s not a cumulative effect (which there is).

          If every car has a percentage chance of derailing, let’s call it X, then a 5 car train will have a 5X chance of derailing. A 50 car train would have a 50X chance…

          But more than that, each train car adds mass to the overall train, which acts as a force multiplier for every car you add.

          Hmmm....

          Not sure if that works. If you take 5 INDIVIDUAL cars, then, of course, they would have 5 times the chance of derailing of a single car.

          But, it's not that simple.

          There are other forces - pull on the couplers? - that might, might, have a stabilizing effect preventing the derailment of any individual car in a long train.

          Does increased mass increase the risk of derailment? Once again, one might argue that an increased mass has other unrecognized effects. Is a heavier car more stable on the rails?

          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @George-K said in Is a longer train more likely to derail?:

          @LuFins-Dad said in Is a longer train more likely to derail?:

          Simple statistics say yes, even if there’s not a cumulative effect (which there is).

          If every car has a percentage chance of derailing, let’s call it X, then a 5 car train will have a 5X chance of derailing. A 50 car train would have a 50X chance…

          But more than that, each train car adds mass to the overall train, which acts as a force multiplier for every car you add.

          Hmmm....

          Not sure if that works. If you take 5 INDIVIDUAL cars, then, of course, they would have 5 times the chance of derailing of a single car.

          But, it's not that simple.

          There are other forces - pull on the couplers? - that might, might, have a stabilizing effect preventing the derailment of any individual car in a long train.

          Does increased mass increase the risk of derailment? Once again, one might argue that an increased mass has other unrecognized effects. Is a heavier car more stable on the rails?

          The mass of the individual cars stays the same. It’s the momentum that is massively increased.

          The Brad

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          • 89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I'll reserve judgement until I hear the opinions of Crash Test on trains.

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