Hamas attacks Israel
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@Mik said in Hamas attacks Israel:
If it were genocide it would have been over a year or so ago.
It all depends on whether one uses a personal definition or the one that the UN, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, Holocaust Museum, The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR - U.S.), The International Court of Justice (ICJ), B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories), Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Jewish Voice for Peace - to name a few entities who have defined Israel's activities as a genocide.
Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar of the Palestine situation, notes that 47% of Jews in Israel supported genocide in Gaza - i.e. asking if everyone in a city should be killed, answered "yes". Asked if there are "any innocents in Gaza?", 70% of Jewish Israelis answered "no". He also notes that's why the IDF "targets" toddlers. A member of the Jewish opposition stated that IDF soldiers kill children as a "hobby".
But one can argue that an alternative definition as employed by many mainstream Jewish organizations in the US don't accept that Israel is committing genocide. It's a bit like the word "myth" - one can say that Christianity is based on myth - meaning a narrative which need not be based on fact, but some would argue that "myth" is a falsehood. One's definition leads to different answers.
Genocide - using the above definition, has been pervasive throughout history. The US is based on genocide of many native peoples. The early Zionists knew that genocide would be necessary and discussed it openly - though avoiding the term. Ugly business. Good luck to all involved.
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Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
If you don't take it, it can only good happen.
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Imagine if Germany had won WWII and as part of an agreement with Mexico - California, Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma and Arizona were returned to Mexico. Individuals living in those states would be confined to a narrow area along the coast of California - would Americans accept that that the native Indians had lived here for 14000 years and were rightfully occupying their land? Yeah, I'm sure. Not to say that Genocide isn't the answer- but it was always going to be an ugly business - and Israel's founders as well as many throughout the world knew it would be a problem.
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As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.
While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.
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As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.
While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.
@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
As Yuval Noah Harari has said it’s not a border dispute, there’s enough land for both peoples. It’s a conflict of narratives and as such is intractable.
While two states is the only eventual solution (since neither people are going anywhere) it seems like we’ve never been further from that in my lifetime.
Not entirely true. Look at the West Bank - settlers continue to
stealsecure additional land for no compensation. Listen to the Israeli officials and view the patches on Israeli soldiers showing a "greater Israel" comprising territory of several nations.Israel has a blank check of armament and support from the most powerful nation in the world.
Truth be told, Israel will get whatever it wants - BUT, there will be a cost even if Israel manages to influence/edit/quash/purchase social and mainstream media.
Like many on the right, I preferred the days of watching a world based on the principles of Andy Griffith and Mayberry - and maybe we'll get there - just no time soon. It's just hard to drink the Kool-Aid of good guys vs. bad guys in a more interconnected world.
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Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
Exactly.
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Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. .
You must have missed it, but Hamas signed onto the deal as of last Friday.
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I thought that the agreement meant that Hamas would not be allowed to exist as a government. I would be surprised if they easily signed on to this.
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Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
@jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Honestly it’s like calling a glance at a black woman’s hair ‘white supremacy’.
You take a word with a well understood and emotionally charged meaning and apply it to something very different with the hopes of getting some of the stink of the word on the new thing.
Of course it also cheapens the word if you’re successful.
This tweet pithily demonstrates that since most of us still assign to the word the original horror it was meant to convey, but there’s a palpable absurdity in its use given Hamas is taking days to decide whether it wants it to end and will probably not quite get there. After all, there’s hunger, and there’s release-the-hostages hunger. Their famine seems to be somewhere between the two.
I agree with all you wrote very eloquently but I think the one problem which facilitates the cheapening of the term is the fact that the holocaust is getting so farther and farther back in history such that many young people simply are disconnected to it ( a recurring theme in this aging forum is that historical events once so present in our psyche are but wisps of memory for young people. Pearl Harbor seems to be forgotten and the impact of 9/11 will be in another generation.matter of time that movies like Schindler’s list or the pianist describing world war 2 will not be made anymore)
Be that as it may, your description of the use of the word genocide is right on target. What a fucked up world. Just reading the descriptions by the flotilla detainees led by Greta of their 48 imprisonment being nazi like, is enough to make you shake your head and think how are people so incredibly stupid.
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Watching the 2 year remembrance vigils of the murderous incursion into Israel, one thing seems certain, that the Palestinian Hamas (& other) terrorists got more in return than they expected.
Having slaughtered 1200 Israelis and kidnapped another 240, I guess Hamas were prepared for Israel to go into Gaza gung-ho, within days, and fairly unprepared for the defensive tunnels and tactics they could provide.
Looking back with two years of hindsight, the long 3 weeks of attrition by Israeli aerial bombardment, a pause which must have allowed for considered & substantial planning, made the eventual Israeli response quite effective... except in finding and extracting the hostages.
I maintain that Israel has had every right to respond the way it has; respond to the Palestinian Hamas written & spoken genocidal intentions and its prolonged genocidal actions against Israeli citizens.
Kill the Palestinian terrorists by any & every means possible, in Gaza and wherever they may hide in our world.What else can an elected democratic state do to protect its citizens and respond to such hatred.
What remains surprising to me is the lack of real response from Arab neighbours (Lebanese terrorists notwithstanding), some maintaining a faux neutrality, others like Qatar spreading propaganda and appealing to western human rights which of course the Palestinian terrorists do not share in any way.
And the Egytian border with Gaza closed and still so.Does anyone know what has happened to the Gazan tunnel network?
