Submersible tour boat joins the Titanic

[Horace]

"By definition, innovation is outside of an already accepted system," the blog said. "However, this does not mean that OceanGate does meet standards where they apply, but it does mean that innovation often falls outside of the existing industry paradigm."

They missed a "not" there, and inverted the intended logic of their sentence.

Pesky details. I bet submarine design has some details to it, too.

[Mik]

Yeah, but...innovation.

[Renauda]

OceanGate was warned in 2018 about the “innovation”.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64920378523d5b1261707f21%26Submersible experts wrote to OceanGate CEO expressing concern%262023-06-20T21%3A24%3A38.642Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cebd3e4f-dae4-4965-8aaf-90c6600cf104&pinned_post_asset_id=64920378523d5b1261707f21&pinned_post_type=share

Could very well be another example of what Shuttle astronaut, Col. Mike Mullane described as the avoidable and tragically costly, normalization of deviance.

[George K]

@Renauda more:

https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/?guccounter=1

The director of marine operations at OceanGate, the company whose submersible went missing Sunday on an expedition to the Titanic in the North Atlantic, was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull and other systems before its maiden voyage, according to a filing in a 2018 lawsuit first reported by Insider and New Republic.

David Lochridge was terminated in January 2018 after presenting a scathing quality control report on the vessel to OceanGate’s senior management, including founder and CEO Stockton Rush, who is on board the missing vessel.

According to a court filing by Lochridge, the preamble to his report read: “Now is the time to properly address items that may pose a safety risk to personnel. Verbal communication of the key items I have addressed in my attached document have been dismissed on several occasions, so I feel now I must make this report so there is an official record in place.”

The report detailed “numerous issues that posed serious safety concerns,” according to the filing. These included Lochridge’s worry that “visible flaws” in the carbon fiber supplied to OceanGate raised the risk of small flaws expanding into larger tears during “pressure cycling.” These are the huge pressure changes that the submersible would experience as it made its way and from the deep ocean floor. He noted that a previously tested scale model of the hull had “prevalent flaws.”

[Doctor Phibes]

@Mik said in Joining the Titanic:

Not certified because innovation.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-maker-of-the-lost-titanic-sub-said-innovation-was-the-reason-the-vessel-wasn-t-checked-to-see-if-it-was-up-to-industry-standards/ar-AA1cNp5H?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=84e1b98e3ff24e2d8a123968aa7c6d43&ei=53

I've had pretty much that conversation a number of times with people who think they know better than the folks who put tens of thousands of man-hours into developing safety standards, and that by applying "basic common sense engineering" they can make things every bit as safe, and much more effective than the rest of the poor saps who follow the rules.

I've said it here before, but working in industrial safety nothing sets my alarms bells ringing as quickly as the job-title "President and Founder" in an email signature. Except possibly when it's coupled with the three letters PhD.

[Jon]

A very pertinent detail from Renauda’s article:

OceanGate confirmed its CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible

As Taleb would say, “skin in the game”

[blondie]

The kid sent me this today .. https://mashable.com/article/missing-titanic-submarine-logitech-game-controller .
I looked at the article, the tweets, etc. Could this be true? A video game controller???

[George K]

@blondie said in Joining the Titanic:

Could this be true? A video game controller?

https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-game-controllers-war/

[Horace]

With more than 4,000 customer reviews on Amazon, it has a rating of 4.2 stars out of 5. Customers were especially high on the ergonomics of the controller.

I wonder how many stars it needs to pass safety standards.

[Doctor Phibes]

@George-K said in Joining the Titanic:

@blondie said in Joining the Titanic:

Could this be true? A video game controller?

https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-game-controllers-war/

What's the betting that the military "improves" the controller enough so that it ends up costing at least 10K?

[Doctor Phibes]

@Jon said in Joining the Titanic:

A very pertinent detail from Renauda’s article:

OceanGate confirmed its CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible

As Taleb would say, “skin in the game”

Yeah, I'm sure he genuinely believed he knew better than all those so-called safety experts.

[blondie]

My kid’s assessment .. “ During the early 2010s if you walked into a computer store's gaming section you could buy one of these OR spend $20 more and buy a wireless Xbox 360 controller.

This thing. This f--king thing, is a piece of shit. Sync issues, poor build quality, outclassed in every way by the Xbox 360 pad, and even the Dualshock 3, the PlayStation 3's controller.”

[George K]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/submarine-titantic-missing-submersible-tourists-latest-b2360568.html

A Canadian aircraft searching for the sub in the Atlantic Ocean detected intermittent “banging” noises from the vicinity of its last known location.

This discovery was shared via internal e-mails sent to the heads of the Department of Homeland Security.

The crew searching for the missing sub heard banging sounds every 30 minutes on Tuesday and again four hours later, after additional sonar devices were deployed.

[George K]

"Inspirational" > "Experienced"

[Mik]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-will-be-the-last-chance-mini-submarine-deployed-in-final-bid-to-save-titan-crew/ar-AA1cPGng?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0b1b540810ab434a8c5da61c7b5173be&ei=14

[Copper]

Has anyone reported any pattern to this banging?

Could most people tap out a simple Morse Code SOS?

dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot

Or dit dah if you want to be picky

I would expect a guy driving this sub would at least tap some kind of pattern.

[Jon]

The sonobuoys are going to pick up any unnatural pattern. They're designed to find the quietest subs in the world.

[Jon]

I don't know exactly, I worked for the defense contracting arm of Magnavox in the 80s which made them (since sold to another company). They were designed to locate Soviet nuclear subs. Those could probably go pretty deep.

I don't know how well the sound travels in the water.

[Copper]

So we ought to be able to hear these guys praying.

Or if they are getting hungry, preying.

[George K]

@Jon said in Submersible tour boat joins the Titanic:

I don't know exactly, I worked for the defense contracting arm of Magnavox in the 80s which made them (since sold to another company). They were designed to locate Soviet nuclear subs. Those could probably go pretty deep.

I don't know how well the sound travels in the water.

(You're responding to a post I deleted, LOL).

Titanic is at, what, 13000 feet? That's far beyond the capabilities of any submarine isn't it? ISN'T IT??

But as to sound traveling through sea water...

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sound.html