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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Submersible tour boat joins the Titanic

Submersible tour boat joins the Titanic

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  • RenaudaR Offline
    RenaudaR Offline
    Renauda
    wrote on last edited by Renauda
    #19

    OceanGate was warned in 2018 about the “innovation”.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64920378523d5b1261707f21%26Submersible experts wrote to OceanGate CEO expressing concern%262023-06-20T21%3A24%3A38.642Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cebd3e4f-dae4-4965-8aaf-90c6600cf104&pinned_post_asset_id=64920378523d5b1261707f21&pinned_post_type=share

    Could very well be another example of what Shuttle astronaut, Col. Mike Mullane described as the avoidable and tragically costly, normalization of deviance.

    Elbows up!

    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Renauda

      OceanGate was warned in 2018 about the “innovation”.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65953941?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=64920378523d5b1261707f21%26Submersible experts wrote to OceanGate CEO expressing concern%262023-06-20T21%3A24%3A38.642Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:cebd3e4f-dae4-4965-8aaf-90c6600cf104&pinned_post_asset_id=64920378523d5b1261707f21&pinned_post_type=share

      Could very well be another example of what Shuttle astronaut, Col. Mike Mullane described as the avoidable and tragically costly, normalization of deviance.

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      @Renauda more:

      https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/?guccounter=1

      The director of marine operations at OceanGate, the company whose submersible went missing Sunday on an expedition to the Titanic in the North Atlantic, was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull and other systems before its maiden voyage, according to a filing in a 2018 lawsuit first reported by Insider and New Republic.

      David Lochridge was terminated in January 2018 after presenting a scathing quality control report on the vessel to OceanGate’s senior management, including founder and CEO Stockton Rush, who is on board the missing vessel.

      According to a court filing by Lochridge, the preamble to his report read: “Now is the time to properly address items that may pose a safety risk to personnel. Verbal communication of the key items I have addressed in my attached document have been dismissed on several occasions, so I feel now I must make this report so there is an official record in place.”

      The report detailed “numerous issues that posed serious safety concerns,” according to the filing. These included Lochridge’s worry that “visible flaws” in the carbon fiber supplied to OceanGate raised the risk of small flaws expanding into larger tears during “pressure cycling.” These are the huge pressure changes that the submersible would experience as it made its way and from the deep ocean floor. He noted that a previously tested scale model of the hull had “prevalent flaws.”

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Mik

        Not certified because innovation.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-maker-of-the-lost-titanic-sub-said-innovation-was-the-reason-the-vessel-wasn-t-checked-to-see-if-it-was-up-to-industry-standards/ar-AA1cNp5H?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=84e1b98e3ff24e2d8a123968aa7c6d43&ei=53

        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
        #21

        @Mik said in Joining the Titanic:

        Not certified because innovation.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/the-maker-of-the-lost-titanic-sub-said-innovation-was-the-reason-the-vessel-wasn-t-checked-to-see-if-it-was-up-to-industry-standards/ar-AA1cNp5H?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=84e1b98e3ff24e2d8a123968aa7c6d43&ei=53

        I've had pretty much that conversation a number of times with people who think they know better than the folks who put tens of thousands of man-hours into developing safety standards, and that by applying "basic common sense engineering" they can make things every bit as safe, and much more effective than the rest of the poor saps who follow the rules.

        I've said it here before, but working in industrial safety nothing sets my alarms bells ringing as quickly as the job-title "President and Founder" in an email signature. Except possibly when it's coupled with the three letters PhD.

        I was only joking

        1 Reply Last reply
        • JonJ Offline
          JonJ Offline
          Jon
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          A very pertinent detail from Renauda’s article:

          OceanGate confirmed its CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible

          As Taleb would say, “skin in the game”

          Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
          • B Offline
            B Offline
            blondie
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            The kid sent me this today .. https://mashable.com/article/missing-titanic-submarine-logitech-game-controller .
            I looked at the article, the tweets, etc. Could this be true? A video game controller???

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • B blondie

              The kid sent me this today .. https://mashable.com/article/missing-titanic-submarine-logitech-game-controller .
              I looked at the article, the tweets, etc. Could this be true? A video game controller???

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              @blondie said in Joining the Titanic:

              Could this be true? A video game controller?

              https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-game-controllers-war/

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Online
                HoraceH Online
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                With more than 4,000 customer reviews on Amazon, it has a rating of 4.2 stars out of 5. Customers were especially high on the ergonomics of the controller.

                I wonder how many stars it needs to pass safety standards.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG George K

                  @blondie said in Joining the Titanic:

                  Could this be true? A video game controller?

                  https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-game-controllers-war/

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  @George-K said in Joining the Titanic:

                  @blondie said in Joining the Titanic:

                  Could this be true? A video game controller?

                  https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-game-controllers-war/

                  What's the betting that the military "improves" the controller enough so that it ends up costing at least 10K?

                  I was only joking

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JonJ Jon

                    A very pertinent detail from Renauda’s article:

                    OceanGate confirmed its CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible

                    As Taleb would say, “skin in the game”

                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    @Jon said in Joining the Titanic:

                    A very pertinent detail from Renauda’s article:

                    OceanGate confirmed its CEO Stockton Rush is aboard the submersible

                    As Taleb would say, “skin in the game”

                    Yeah, I'm sure he genuinely believed he knew better than all those so-called safety experts.

                    I was only joking

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • B Offline
                      B Offline
                      blondie
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      My kid’s assessment .. “ During the early 2010s if you walked into a computer store's gaming section you could buy one of these OR spend $20 more and buy a wireless Xbox 360 controller.

                      This thing. This f--king thing, is a piece of shit. Sync issues, poor build quality, outclassed in every way by the Xbox 360 pad, and even the Dualshock 3, the PlayStation 3's controller.”

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG Offline
                        George KG Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on last edited by George K
                        #29

                        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/submarine-titantic-missing-submersible-tourists-latest-b2360568.html

                        A Canadian aircraft searching for the sub in the Atlantic Ocean detected intermittent “banging” noises from the vicinity of its last known location.

                        This discovery was shared via internal e-mails sent to the heads of the Department of Homeland Security.

                        The crew searching for the missing sub heard banging sounds every 30 minutes on Tuesday and again four hours later, after additional sonar devices were deployed.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          "Inspirational" > "Experienced"

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Away
                            MikM Away
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-will-be-the-last-chance-mini-submarine-deployed-in-final-bid-to-save-titan-crew/ar-AA1cPGng?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0b1b540810ab434a8c5da61c7b5173be&ei=14

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • CopperC Offline
                              CopperC Offline
                              Copper
                              wrote on last edited by Copper
                              #32

                              Has anyone reported any pattern to this banging?

                              Could most people tap out a simple Morse Code SOS?

                              dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot

                              Or dit dah if you want to be picky

                              I would expect a guy driving this sub would at least tap some kind of pattern.

                              LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                              • JonJ Offline
                                JonJ Offline
                                Jon
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #33

                                The sonobuoys are going to pick up any unnatural pattern. They're designed to find the quietest subs in the world.

                                89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                                • JonJ Offline
                                  JonJ Offline
                                  Jon
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #34

                                  I don't know exactly, I worked for the defense contracting arm of Magnavox in the 80s which made them (since sold to another company). They were designed to locate Soviet nuclear subs. Those could probably go pretty deep.

                                  I don't know how well the sound travels in the water.

                                  George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • CopperC Offline
                                    CopperC Offline
                                    Copper
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #35

                                    So we ought to be able to hear these guys praying.

                                    Or if they are getting hungry, preying.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JonJ Jon

                                      I don't know exactly, I worked for the defense contracting arm of Magnavox in the 80s which made them (since sold to another company). They were designed to locate Soviet nuclear subs. Those could probably go pretty deep.

                                      I don't know how well the sound travels in the water.

                                      George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #36

                                      @Jon said in Submersible tour boat joins the Titanic:

                                      I don't know exactly, I worked for the defense contracting arm of Magnavox in the 80s which made them (since sold to another company). They were designed to locate Soviet nuclear subs. Those could probably go pretty deep.

                                      I don't know how well the sound travels in the water.

                                      (You're responding to a post I deleted, LOL).

                                      Titanic is at, what, 13000 feet? That's far beyond the capabilities of any submarine isn't it? ISN'T IT??

                                      But as to sound traveling through sea water...

                                      https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sound.html

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JonJ Offline
                                        JonJ Offline
                                        Jon
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #37

                                        We don't know how deep the little sub is. But at any rate the Canadians heard it.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • KlausK Offline
                                          KlausK Offline
                                          Klaus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #38

                                          Even if they'd find the boat and even if they'd be able to give them oxygen, how would they ever be able to actually rescue them?

                                          Could you attach a rope and pull the boat up? In such depths, very simple things get very complicated.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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