"A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.

[LuFins Dad]

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

Not statewide. Our district was only closed spring of 2020. The city stayed closed for 2020-2021 I believe.

Yes, I seem to recall that N.Y.C. didn’t reopen until September, 2021 and even delayed then, but that’s on the city not on the state.

However, did your schools fully reopen for in-person learning in the fall of 2020? Or was it a hybrid model? Here we had the choice of 2 days in-school/3 days remote or you could choose a full-time remote. It was Luke’s senior year. He was essentially done and most of the important classes were disrupted by the disjointed schedule so we opted for remote, but I would still argue that a part time schedule is still a type of lockdown.

[Horace]

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

I remember well the tenor of conversation here on TNCR at the time. The full-stop fear of getting sick was thick in the air, and the pricelessness of human life was an idea taken seriously.

I’ll cop to the former, the transplant physicians were genuinely worried it would be a death sentence for us. Indeed for many it was and still is. I had a transplant friend die of Covid as recently as April 15th (some 2 days before I tested positive).

Your fear of getting sick was understandable, but it wasn't just you.

I don’t remember anyone here adopting the latter view.

It was prevalent here.

[LuFins Dad]

I admit to getting sucked in.

[Doctor Phibes]

There was a huge amount of uncertainty. Managing a pandemic with 20/20 hindsight is real easy.

I remember in March/April 2020 leaving the mail in the sun-room to decontaminate for 24 hours. It seems ridiculous now. I got yelled at by a pedestrian when I cycled past them for being within 8 feet, then around the next corner I saw a bunch of older guys jogging and thinking they were crazy for getting so close.

Even now, things vary - we have the husband of a liver transplant survivor working here - he still never meets anyone in person and wears a mask at all times when he leaves his office. Ironically, his wife ended up giving him covid.

[LuFins Dad]

@Doctor-Phibes I get the panic… I was pulled in, too. Wiping down groceries with Clorox wipes in a decontamination room…

That doesn’t alleviate our public health experts for critical failures and our governments for allowing our rights to be infringed on because of those public health failures.

[Doctor Phibes]

@LuFins-Dad said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Doctor-Phibes I get the panic… I was pulled in, too. Wiping down groceries with Clorox wipes in a decontamination room…

That doesn’t alleviate our public health experts for critical failures and our governments for allowing our rights to be infringed on because of those public health failures.

Well, to be fair they were operating under a lot of uncertainty too. However. the initial post in this thread was about the UK , and I'd characterise the behaviour of that government as disgusting. Drinks parties at No. 10 while the rest of the country was forcibly being isolated. Contracts for safety equipment being awarded to friends and family of senior politicians without any tendering process despite them being incapable of delivering and having insufficient expertise. Senior government ministers driving hundreds of miles for 'child care' and 'to test out my eyesight'. I could go on.

[Horace]

The lockdowns and vaccine mandates, and the sanctimonious finger pointing at those who were against them, are historical facts. We all took a test and we all turned in our results. People differ.

[Copper]

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

True but you thought the flu was worse.

I thought that right up until it wasn't, which was, if I remember correctly, several months into the race.

Most people conceded the race to covid too early.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Copper said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

True but you thought the flu was worse.

I thought that right up until it wasn't, which was, if I remember correctly, several months into the race.

Then apparently you still don't understand the time difference between reported numbers and real-time fatalities.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

The lockdowns and vaccine mandates, and the sanctimonious finger pointing at those who were against them, are historical facts. We all took a test and we all turned in our results. People differ.

Don't forget the the plandemic people, many of whom are presumably still inhabiting a world where it was all a vast conspiracy conjured up by Bill Gates and his nanobots. And then there's the people who think the vaccines were more dangerous than Covid, and were a government plan to do something or other. People do indeed differ.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

The lockdowns and vaccine mandates, and the sanctimonious finger pointing at those who were against them, are historical facts. We all took a test and we all turned in our results. People differ.

Don't forget the the plandemic people, many of whom are presumably still inhabiting a world where it was all a vast conspiracy conjured up by Bill Gates and his nanobots. And then there's the people who think the vaccines were more dangerous than Covid, and were a government plan to do something or other. People do indeed differ.

There’s a difference between people one interacts with daily, and giggle targets one unearths by digging through the internet. What I described was totally mainstream.

[89th]

Oh hindsight. What does this mean, the next global pandemic folks will say we shouldn't lock down then realize later we should've. I think the biggest lessons from COVID are knowing which populations are truly the most vulnerable (elderly, obese, etc) and focusing efforts there, but then again... don't forget what we were going through in the Spring of 2020.

Mobile morgues. Make-shift hospitals. Mass graves.

[Horace]

@89th said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

Oh hindsight. What does this mean, the next global pandemic folks will say we shouldn't lock down then realize later we should've.

I can’t speak for anybody else, but what it means for me is that I’ll continue to treat everything on a case by case basis, rather than applying an incoherent rule learned from a vaguely rhyming history. I will continue to roll my eyes at the sanctimonious masses leaping at the opportunity to divide people into good vs evil groups. And I will continue to lean heavily towards a principle of personal liberty.

[George K]

Perhaps I'm reading that article wrong. I don't think it diminished or underestimated the severity of the pandemic. The point is the lockdowns made little difference in making it better, and made a lot of difference in making the whole time worse.

[Copper]

@Aqua-Letifer said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Copper said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

True but you thought the flu was worse.

I thought that right up until it wasn't, which was, if I remember correctly, several months into the race.

Then apparently you still don't understand the time difference between reported numbers and real-time fatalities.

I understand everything, without exception.

That is why I reported what I reported these many years ago.

You reported your emotions, which turned out to be correct but not until I reported the changing numbers.

[Doctor Phibes]

@George-K said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

Perhaps I'm reading that article wrong. I don't think it diminished or underestimated the severity of the pandemic. The point is the lockdowns made little difference in making it better, and made a lot of difference in making the whole time worse.

That was my take, too.

I'm not one of the people who think that the lockdowns were an attempt at tyranny. I think that for the most part they were governments doing what they thought was best for the general population, and in some cases panicking just as the general population panicked.

The fact that they may not have worked will hopefully help if we face something similar in the future, but to be honest I'm not sure. This was not an easy couple of years for anybody.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

I will continue to roll my eyes at the sanctimonious masses leaping at the opportunity to divide people into good vs evil groups.

I tell you one thing I seem to remember. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I recall a number of people who weren't working any more implying that others who were needed to get back to the office for the sake of the economy.

And I have to say it really pissed me off.

[Jon]

@Copper said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

True but you thought the flu was worse.

I thought that right up until it wasn't, which was, if I remember correctly, several months into the race.

You were saying it well past the time the skeptics were saying it and well into the time where it was just the trolls.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Horace said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

I will continue to roll my eyes at the sanctimonious masses leaping at the opportunity to divide people into good vs evil groups.

I tell you one thing I seem to remember. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I recall a number of people who weren't working any more implying that others who were needed to get back to the office for the sake of the economy.

And I have to say it really pissed me off.

There is no end to the reasons you have for dismissing people's opinions.

[Jon]

@LuFins-Dad said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

@Jon said in "A policy failure of gigantic proportions”.:

Not statewide. Our district was only closed spring of 2020. The city stayed closed for 2020-2021 I believe.

Yes, I seem to recall that N.Y.C. didn’t reopen until September, 2021 and even delayed then, but that’s on the city not on the state.

However, did your schools fully reopen for in-person learning in the fall of 2020? Or was it a hybrid model? Here we had the choice of 2 days in-school/3 days remote or you could choose a full-time remote. It was Luke’s senior year. He was essentially done and most of the important classes were disrupted by the disjointed schedule so we opted for remote, but I would still argue that a part time schedule is still a type of lockdown.

Fair point. We had a hybrid model until spring of 2021.

I think the costs of virtual schooling were pretty immense overall. Emily Oster was making that case early, and rather persuasively.

The thing that pissed me off most about the teachers unions in some cities is they argued to be first in line for vaccines and then STILL wouldn't come in. The only case for giving them early access was to reopen the schools.