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  3. Twitter suspends journalists...

Twitter suspends journalists...

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  • J jon-nyc
    16 Dec 2022, 18:02

    Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

    I’ll do better.

    H Offline
    H Offline
    Horace
    wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:18 last edited by
    #34

    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

    Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

    I’ll do better.

    “New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.

    Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.

    Education is extremely important.

    J 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 18:24
    • H Horace
      16 Dec 2022, 18:18

      @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

      Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

      I’ll do better.

      “New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.

      Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.

      J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:24 last edited by
      #35

      @Horace

      Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      H 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 18:30
      • J jon-nyc
        16 Dec 2022, 18:24

        @Horace

        Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

        H Offline
        H Offline
        Horace
        wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:30 last edited by
        #36

        @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

        @Horace

        Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

        In a binary judgement where moderation processes do or do not contain some amount of arbitrariness or capriciousness, I agree that the previous regime and the current regime are equal. That will remain a trivially true point forever regardless of what Musk does.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • J Online
          J Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:35 last edited by
          #37

          That’s weak.

          Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          H 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 18:42
          • J Offline
            J Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:41 last edited by
            #38

            Twitter rules?

            Work in progress. I think he's done some things right, some things wrong, but I still heartily agree about the doxxing policy.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • J jon-nyc
              16 Dec 2022, 18:35

              That’s weak.

              Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

              H Offline
              H Offline
              Horace
              wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:42 last edited by
              #39

              @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

              That’s weak.

              Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

              I’m not sure you understood my point. I am saying that there are facile and trivially true ways to claim equality between the old and new regime. I am claiming that your equality is such a facile and trivial one. There are others, one of which you just presented. It argues against nothing I said.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:57 last edited by
                #40

                I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                H 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 19:01
                • J jon-nyc
                  16 Dec 2022, 18:57

                  I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                  Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                  H Offline
                  H Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:01 last edited by
                  #41

                  @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                  I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                  Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                  Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  H 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 19:05
                  • H Horace
                    16 Dec 2022, 19:01

                    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                    I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                    Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                    Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                    H Offline
                    H Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:05 last edited by Horace
                    #42

                    @Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                    I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                    Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                    Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                    I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 19:19
                    • H Horace
                      16 Dec 2022, 19:05

                      @Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                      @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                      I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                      Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                      Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                      I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.

                      J Online
                      J Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:19 last edited by
                      #43

                      @Horace it’s unclear to me whether he announced the new rule before he banned people who were following the rule that was in place until last night. It seems to have been at about the same time.

                      Just last month he actually pointed to the guy with the plane account being allowed on Twitter as evidence of his commitment to free speech.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • J Online
                        J Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:21 last edited by
                        #44

                        He seems to be fully aware of what an own-goal this was.

                        He’s currently running a poll that asks should they be reinstated now or in a week (now is winning).

                        He also made a joke acknowledging the Streisand effect.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Online
                          J Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:25 last edited by jon-nyc
                          #45

                          Last night he told 121MM people that anyone can track his plane’s whereabouts in real time using public information.

                          I wonder how many of those 121MM didn’t know that before he told them? Vast majority I assume.

                          How many stories are being written up about it right now?

                          Some of us remember the story from a year ago when he tried to pay the kid to stop publicizing it.

                          Had he not done either of those things, how many people would know about it?

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • D Offline
                            D Offline
                            Doctor Phibes
                            wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:31 last edited by
                            #46

                            Yeah, it's pretty clear he's all over the place and making things up as he goes along.

                            I was only joking

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • G Offline
                              G Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:32 last edited by
                              #47

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              H 1 Reply Last reply 16 Dec 2022, 19:45
                              • H Offline
                                H Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:42 last edited by
                                #48

                                Nobody appears dead set that doxxing should be fair play on Twitter. If anybody wants to take pot shots at Musk for going back and forth on this, they can. Personally I start caring when it's clear there are concealed ulterior motives. I'm fine with false starts and backtracks as the rules are ironed out, and I'm even fine with disagreeing with the rules.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Copper
                                  wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:45 last edited by
                                  #49

                                  The old regime at Twitter governed by its own whims and biases and it sure looks like the new regime has the same problem.

                                  I'm not that familiar with all the rules, but didn't the old regime keep this stuff secret, and didn't they lie to keep it secret?

                                  Mr. Musk seems to be delivering on his prediction that he would make mistakes.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • G George K
                                    16 Dec 2022, 19:32

                                    H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:45 last edited by
                                    #50

                                    @George-K said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                    They weren't moderated for reporting on an important story. I fail to see Weiss' point, unless the class of people "reporting on important stories" are to be considered unbannable for any reason. Which would be stupid.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • J Online
                                      J Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:52 last edited by
                                      #51

                                      Matt Binder claims otherwise.

                                      “I was banned on Thursday night immediately after sharing a screenshot from CNN’s Donie O’Sullivan moments after he was suspended,” Binder told Rolling Stone. “The screenshot was an official LAPD statement regarding the incident Elon Musk was tweeting out about last night which led him to suspending ElonJet and its creator Jack Sweeney. I did not share any location data, as per Twitter’s new terms. Nor did I share any links to ElonJet or other location tracking accounts. I have been highly critical of Musk but never broke any of Twitter’s listed policies.”

                                      I guess we’ll get to the truth soon enough.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on 17 Dec 2022, 08:07 last edited by
                                        #52

                                        At least all these guys that were leaving Twitter are apparently still there...

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J jon-nyc
                                          16 Dec 2022, 15:14

                                          @Horace

                                          Zoom out a bit.

                                          He first said he would go by first amendment rules. If it’s not illegal it’s allowed.

                                          Later he said he’d convene a new panel before making any decisions.

                                          Then he restored accounts based on ad hoc polls.

                                          Then he said he’d moderate tweets rather than accounts.

                                          Then he banned Kanye.

                                          Then he said he wouldn’t ban the airplane location guy.

                                          Then he banned the airplane location account AND the guy behind it.

                                          And now he’s banning retweets of him.

                                          What’s next? No one knows. Not even Elon is aware of what next week’s whims will bring.

                                          T Offline
                                          T Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote on 17 Dec 2022, 20:22 last edited by
                                          #53

                                          @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                          Then he restored accounts based on ad hoc polls.

                                          Well, he did run a poll about banning the journalists. It had four choices, and the vast majority said that either no ban, or a short ban.

                                          His reply was to say that the previous poll had too many choices and he was going to rerun it. LOL

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