Twitter suspends journalists...
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@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I’m getting support for my take in unlikely places.
Or maybe they’re not unlikely, I just misjudged how well they’d adhere to principles.
Is Musk's policy unclear at this point? If so then I'm sure we all agree that he should be clear about it.
It seems nobody is, in principle, against moderating doxxers. So it is unclear which principle you doubted people would adhere to. There are several facile principles in play, such as "clarity in policy is good" and "changing policy for no good reason is bad". I am sure Musk could be doing better with both of those principles, but let's not pretend he is in the league of institutionalized biased or arbitrary moderating as the previous regime, which was your point. A point which neither Weiss nor Rufo are actually supporting.
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Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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I’m thinking the Musk move on the airplane guy is having a Streisand effect, rather ironically like Twitter’s 36hr banning of the laptop story did 2 years ago.
Now the guy’s trending on FB, which has 10x the user base of Twitter.
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Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
“New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.
Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.
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@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
“New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.
Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.
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Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.
In a binary judgement where moderation processes do or do not contain some amount of arbitrariness or capriciousness, I agree that the previous regime and the current regime are equal. That will remain a trivially true point forever regardless of what Musk does.
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That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
I’m not sure you understood my point. I am saying that there are facile and trivially true ways to claim equality between the old and new regime. I am claiming that your equality is such a facile and trivial one. There are others, one of which you just presented. It argues against nothing I said.
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I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
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I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
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@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
@Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.
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@Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.
@Horace it’s unclear to me whether he announced the new rule before he banned people who were following the rule that was in place until last night. It seems to have been at about the same time.
Just last month he actually pointed to the guy with the plane account being allowed on Twitter as evidence of his commitment to free speech.
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Last night he told 121MM people that anyone can track his plane’s whereabouts in real time using public information.
I wonder how many of those 121MM didn’t know that before he told them? Vast majority I assume.
How many stories are being written up about it right now?
Some of us remember the story from a year ago when he tried to pay the kid to stop publicizing it.
Had he not done either of those things, how many people would know about it?
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Yeah, it's pretty clear he's all over the place and making things up as he goes along.
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Nobody appears dead set that doxxing should be fair play on Twitter. If anybody wants to take pot shots at Musk for going back and forth on this, they can. Personally I start caring when it's clear there are concealed ulterior motives. I'm fine with false starts and backtracks as the rules are ironed out, and I'm even fine with disagreeing with the rules.
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The old regime at Twitter governed by its own whims and biases and it sure looks like the new regime has the same problem.
I'm not that familiar with all the rules, but didn't the old regime keep this stuff secret, and didn't they lie to keep it secret?
Mr. Musk seems to be delivering on his prediction that he would make mistakes.
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@George-K said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
They weren't moderated for reporting on an important story. I fail to see Weiss' point, unless the class of people "reporting on important stories" are to be considered unbannable for any reason. Which would be stupid.
