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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Twitter suspends journalists...

Twitter suspends journalists...

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

    It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.

    Who else is out there trying to fix a social media platform from a user perspective?

    I'm not saying he's successful or that he even cares about the outcome. But compared to who's out there fixing Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, well, c'mon.

    Please love yourself.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #27

      The ever-wonderful Iowahawk chimes in (screenshots).

      Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 9.54.19 AM.png
      Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 9.54.42 AM.png

      And the last one - tweet is worth reading for the comments.

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #28

        Dissent from Bari Weiss

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #29

          I’m getting support for my take in unlikely places.

          Or maybe they’re not unlikely, I just misjudged how well they’d adhere to principles.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #30

            I’m thinking the Musk move on the airplane guy is having a Streisand effect, rather ironically like Twitter’s 36hr banning of the laptop story did 2 years ago.

            Now the guy’s trending on FB, which has 10x the user base of Twitter.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              I’m getting support for my take in unlikely places.

              Or maybe they’re not unlikely, I just misjudged how well they’d adhere to principles.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #31

              @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

              I’m getting support for my take in unlikely places.

              Or maybe they’re not unlikely, I just misjudged how well they’d adhere to principles.

              Is Musk's policy unclear at this point? If so then I'm sure we all agree that he should be clear about it.

              It seems nobody is, in principle, against moderating doxxers. So it is unclear which principle you doubted people would adhere to. There are several facile principles in play, such as "clarity in policy is good" and "changing policy for no good reason is bad". I am sure Musk could be doing better with both of those principles, but let's not pretend he is in the league of institutionalized biased or arbitrary moderating as the previous regime, which was your point. A point which neither Weiss nor Rufo are actually supporting.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                #32

                Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

                I’ll do better.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  I’m thinking the Musk move on the airplane guy is having a Streisand effect, rather ironically like Twitter’s 36hr banning of the laptop story did 2 years ago.

                  Now the guy’s trending on FB, which has 10x the user base of Twitter.

                  George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #33

                  @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                  Twitter’s 36hr banning

                  The Post claims it was 8 days.

                  As does the Guardian.

                  As does Fox.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

                    I’ll do better.

                    HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #34

                    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                    Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

                    I’ll do better.

                    “New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.

                    Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Horace

                      @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                      Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.

                      I’ll do better.

                      “New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.

                      Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.

                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #35

                      @Horace

                      Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        @Horace

                        Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #36

                        @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                        @Horace

                        Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.

                        In a binary judgement where moderation processes do or do not contain some amount of arbitrariness or capriciousness, I agree that the previous regime and the current regime are equal. That will remain a trivially true point forever regardless of what Musk does.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #37

                          That’s weak.

                          Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #38

                            Twitter rules?

                            Work in progress. I think he's done some things right, some things wrong, but I still heartily agree about the doxxing policy.

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              That’s weak.

                              Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #39

                              @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                              That’s weak.

                              Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.

                              I’m not sure you understood my point. I am saying that there are facile and trivially true ways to claim equality between the old and new regime. I am claiming that your equality is such a facile and trivial one. There are others, one of which you just presented. It argues against nothing I said.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #40

                                I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                  Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #41

                                  @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                  I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                  Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                  Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Horace

                                    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                    I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                    Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                    Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by Horace
                                    #42

                                    @Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                    I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                    Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                    Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                                    I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Horace

                                      @Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:

                                      I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.

                                      Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.

                                      Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.

                                      I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.

                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #43

                                      @Horace it’s unclear to me whether he announced the new rule before he banned people who were following the rule that was in place until last night. It seems to have been at about the same time.

                                      Just last month he actually pointed to the guy with the plane account being allowed on Twitter as evidence of his commitment to free speech.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #44

                                        He seems to be fully aware of what an own-goal this was.

                                        He’s currently running a poll that asks should they be reinstated now or in a week (now is winning).

                                        He also made a joke acknowledging the Streisand effect.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                          #45

                                          Last night he told 121MM people that anyone can track his plane’s whereabouts in real time using public information.

                                          I wonder how many of those 121MM didn’t know that before he told them? Vast majority I assume.

                                          How many stories are being written up about it right now?

                                          Some of us remember the story from a year ago when he tried to pay the kid to stop publicizing it.

                                          Had he not done either of those things, how many people would know about it?

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                          1 Reply Last reply
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