Black Lives Don't Matter
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wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 12:33 last edited by
No, his implication was that if black lives mattered to the black community then they would focus on this as opposed to incidents that affect very few.
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Is that a valid reason to claim that black lives don't matter? Because a segment of the black population is focusing elsewhere? Even wrongly?
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 12:34 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
Is that a valid reason to claim that black lives don't matter? Because a segment of the black population is focusing elsewhere? Even wrongly?
He isn't claiming the black lives don't matter. He's saying these "protesters" care more about tearing things down than they care about black lives.
He's right.
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@Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.
Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 12:34 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.
Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.
Jesus.
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@Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.
Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.
Jesus.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 12:39 last edited by@Larry said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.
Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.
Jesus.
And Mary and Joseph in Tinseltown...
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A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.
The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 14:17 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.
The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.
It's pretty bad when the joke guy's making the most sense!
BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.
But like Jolly's saying, they cherry-pick their outrage. It's a very specific kind of crime they find atrocious; about others, they're always strangely silent.
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wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 14:33 last edited by
I like to self identify as the sort of person who can prioritize issues and comment on the ones I find most important without needing to dig too deep into the stack of issues under it to establish that I am aware of them too. Especially when their solutions are not at odds with the stuff I comment on anyway.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.
The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.
It's pretty bad when the joke guy's making the most sense!
BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.
But like Jolly's saying, they cherry-pick their outrage. It's a very specific kind of crime they find atrocious; about others, they're always strangely silent.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 15:19 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.
Is the sample size large enough to make that kind of general statement?
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@Mik said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
It's totally fair and indicative of the dishonesty in the conversation as it stands today.
You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?
- That's right: thirteen.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:00 last edited by@George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?
- That's right: thirteen.
That was an interesting site.
So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.
Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.
Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.
Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.
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@George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?
- That's right: thirteen.
That was an interesting site.
So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.
Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.
Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.
Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:02 last edited by@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?
- That's right: thirteen.
That was an interesting site.
So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.
Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.
Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.
Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.
How about that.
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wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:05 last edited by
What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.
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What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:13 last edited by@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.George Floyd wasn't shot.
Erik Garner wasn't shot.
Jamel Floyd wasn't shot.You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.
The Brad
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wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:21 last edited by
There are countless videos of innocent people being body slammed by the police.
It's not just about being killed, it's about a mindset.
Does anybody think what happened to this guy is justified? Does anybody think details would have gone public if there wasn't a camera?
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@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.George Floyd wasn't shot.
Erik Garner wasn't shot.
Jamel Floyd wasn't shot.You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:23 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.
You're right.
https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2019-we-think-1841183889
We added some officer-involved deaths that did not fit the Washington Post’s criteria, including:
10 shootings by off-duty cops
21 vehicular deaths
6 people who died from asphyxiation or being restrained
6 people who died from beatings or bludgeonings
5 medical emergencies while in police custody
31 taserings
1 man (John Watson III) who was shot by police in 2019 but died in 2020.After we sorted through the data, here are some other startling facts about 2019’s officer-involved killings:
A black person was three-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by cop than a white person.
A Hispanic person was one-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white person
An unarmed black person was three times more likely to be killed by police than a white person with no weapon
An unarmed black person fleeing the scene was six times more likely than a white person to be killed by a police officer. -
@George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?
- That's right: thirteen.
That was an interesting site.
So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.
Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.
Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.
Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.
wrote on 26 Jun 2020, 19:54 last edited by@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.
Those blm guys are going to feel so silly when they find out.
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wrote on 27 Jun 2020, 02:41 last edited by 89th
@LuFins-Dad and @Doctor-Phibes Yeah I know those stats were just based on police shooting deaths, I wasn't sure where (or even if) I could find data on those other types of interactions.
@Doctor-Phibes you're right it's about a mindset, but do you really think there is a substantial mindset out there of "that guy is black so I will rough him up?" or is it "that guy looks like the guy we are looking for (who happens to be black) so I'm going to go detain him" at which point resisting arrest is often [I would say nearly always] the reason interactions escalate to violence.
And no, I saw that video of the Georgia man. Clearly the cop who walked up from behind to initiate the handcuffs was mistaken and looked like a ghost once he realized it wasn't the right guy. While the guy certainly has the right to sue, the larger question was...was he hurt because he was black? I'd say no. Again, no racist mindset. Perhaps a "using force too quickly" mindset, but not "I'm going to break this guys wrists because he's black."
@George-K Not really sure how The Root came up with those conclusions based on the numbers. Maybe they account for per capita of the race's population? Of course that ignores the race's per capita contribution to crime.
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wrote on 21 Aug 2020, 23:15 last edited by
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wrote on 21 Aug 2020, 23:22 last edited by
wOw
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@LuFins-Dad and @Doctor-Phibes Yeah I know those stats were just based on police shooting deaths, I wasn't sure where (or even if) I could find data on those other types of interactions.
@Doctor-Phibes you're right it's about a mindset, but do you really think there is a substantial mindset out there of "that guy is black so I will rough him up?" or is it "that guy looks like the guy we are looking for (who happens to be black) so I'm going to go detain him" at which point resisting arrest is often [I would say nearly always] the reason interactions escalate to violence.
And no, I saw that video of the Georgia man. Clearly the cop who walked up from behind to initiate the handcuffs was mistaken and looked like a ghost once he realized it wasn't the right guy. While the guy certainly has the right to sue, the larger question was...was he hurt because he was black? I'd say no. Again, no racist mindset. Perhaps a "using force too quickly" mindset, but not "I'm going to break this guys wrists because he's black."
@George-K Not really sure how The Root came up with those conclusions based on the numbers. Maybe they account for per capita of the race's population? Of course that ignores the race's per capita contribution to crime.
wrote on 21 Aug 2020, 23:27 last edited by@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Doctor-Phibes you're right it's about a mindset, but do you really think there is a substantial mindset out there of "that guy is black so I will rough him up?"
Read Talking With Strangers. The entire point of the book is to attempt to seriously answer that question.
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@89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
@Doctor-Phibes you're right it's about a mindset, but do you really think there is a substantial mindset out there of "that guy is black so I will rough him up?"
Read Talking With Strangers. The entire point of the book is to attempt to seriously answer that question.
wrote on 21 Aug 2020, 23:32 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Black Lives Don't Matter:
Read Talking With Strangers.
I really enjoyed that book. One of Gladwell's best, IMO.
