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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Black Lives Don't Matter

Black Lives Don't Matter

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  • Catseye3C Offline
    Catseye3C Offline
    Catseye3
    wrote on last edited by
    #8

    Is that a valid reason to claim that black lives don't matter? Because a segment of the black population is focusing elsewhere? Even wrongly?

    Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

    LarryL 1 Reply Last reply
    • Catseye3C Catseye3

      Come on, Jolly; that's hardly fair.

      JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by Jolly
      #9

      @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

      Come on, Jolly; that's hardly fair.

      The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

      Fair? I dunno. Salient? Beyond doubt.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
      • Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
        #10

        A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.

        The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.

        I was only joking

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

          Come on, Jolly; that's hardly fair.

          The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

          Fair? I dunno. Salient? Beyond doubt.

          Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3
          wrote on last edited by
          #11

          @Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

          The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

          Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.

          Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

          LarryL 1 Reply Last reply
          • LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins Dad
            wrote on last edited by
            #12

            No, his implication was that if black lives mattered to the black community then they would focus on this as opposed to incidents that affect very few.

            The Brad

            1 Reply Last reply
            • Catseye3C Catseye3

              Is that a valid reason to claim that black lives don't matter? Because a segment of the black population is focusing elsewhere? Even wrongly?

              LarryL Offline
              LarryL Offline
              Larry
              wrote on last edited by
              #13

              @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

              Is that a valid reason to claim that black lives don't matter? Because a segment of the black population is focusing elsewhere? Even wrongly?

              He isn't claiming the black lives don't matter. He's saying these "protesters" care more about tearing things down than they care about black lives.

              He's right.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Catseye3C Catseye3

                @Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

                Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.

                LarryL Offline
                LarryL Offline
                Larry
                wrote on last edited by
                #14

                @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                @Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

                Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.

                Jesus.

                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • LarryL Larry

                  @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                  @Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                  The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

                  Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.

                  Jesus.

                  JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #15

                  @Larry said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                  @Catseye3 said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                  @Jolly said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                  The weekend this shooting occurred, there were 102 shootings in Chicago, mostly in black neighborhoods.

                  Your implication (from your opener) is that life matters less to blacks than it does to other races -- because some blacks are off gallivanting with knocking down statues. You make the leap from the elevated shooting rate by blacks over whites to concluding that life matters less for them. That might be true if you applied the experience of living white to the experience of living black. As it is, your conclusion is a cheap shot.

                  Jesus.

                  And Mary and Joseph in Tinseltown...

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                    A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.

                    The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.

                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #16

                    @Doctor-Phibes said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                    A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.

                    The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.

                    It's pretty bad when the joke guy's making the most sense!

                    BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.

                    But like Jolly's saying, they cherry-pick their outrage. It's a very specific kind of crime they find atrocious; about others, they're always strangely silent.

                    Please love yourself.

                    CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #17

                      I like to self identify as the sort of person who can prioritize issues and comment on the ones I find most important without needing to dig too deep into the stack of issues under it to establish that I am aware of them too. Especially when their solutions are not at odds with the stuff I comment on anyway.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                        A little honesty from both sides would be good. Certain police forces clearly have a long history of covering up all kinds of stuff, and are really only getting caught now that cell phones are widely used, which has also basically forced the police to wear body-cams.

                        The gangsta culture is horrible, as is the lack of co-operation after a crime occurs.

                        It's pretty bad when the joke guy's making the most sense!

                        BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.

                        But like Jolly's saying, they cherry-pick their outrage. It's a very specific kind of crime they find atrocious; about others, they're always strangely silent.

                        CopperC Offline
                        CopperC Offline
                        Copper
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #18

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                        BLM is right about the unions and the "independent" review boards. That shit needs to be fixed immediately.

                        Is the sample size large enough to make that kind of general statement?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG George K

                          @Mik said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                          It's totally fair and indicative of the dishonesty in the conversation as it stands today.

                          You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?

                          1. That's right: thirteen.

                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

                          89th8 Offline
                          89th8 Offline
                          89th
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #19

                          @George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                          You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?

                          1. That's right: thirteen.

                          That was an interesting site.

                          So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.

                          Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.

                          Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.

                          Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.

                          George KG CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
                          • 89th8 89th

                            @George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                            You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?

                            1. That's right: thirteen.

                            That was an interesting site.

                            So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.

                            Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.

                            Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.

                            Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #20

                            @89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                            @George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                            You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?

                            1. That's right: thirteen.

                            That was an interesting site.

                            So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.

                            Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.

                            Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.

                            Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.

                            How about that.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • 89th8 Offline
                              89th8 Offline
                              89th
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #21

                              What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.

                              So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.

                              LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 89th

                                What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.

                                So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.

                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #22

                                @89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                                What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
                                So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.

                                George Floyd wasn't shot.
                                Erik Garner wasn't shot.
                                Jamel Floyd wasn't shot.

                                You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.

                                The Brad

                                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #23

                                  There are countless videos of innocent people being body slammed by the police.

                                  It's not just about being killed, it's about a mindset.

                                  Does anybody think what happened to this guy is justified? Does anybody think details would have gone public if there wasn't a camera?

                                  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/24/man-sues-georgia-police-excessive-use-force-after-wrong-arrest/3248440001/

                                  I was only joking

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                                    @89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                                    What's even more coincidental, is you have a 0.00014% chance of being struck by lightning.
                                    So black men BEING arrested, have the same chance of being shot and killed by police as they are being struck by lightning that year. Not to mention your odds go WAY up if you don't do something that risks being arrested.

                                    George Floyd wasn't shot.
                                    Erik Garner wasn't shot.
                                    Jamel Floyd wasn't shot.

                                    You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.

                                    George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #24

                                    @LuFins-Dad said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                                    You can't limit it to just shootings. Most cases of Police Brutality don't involve guns and don't even necessarily include deaths... Of course, they also mostly don't involve racism, either.

                                    You're right.

                                    https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2019-we-think-1841183889

                                    We added some officer-involved deaths that did not fit the Washington Post’s criteria, including:

                                    10 shootings by off-duty cops
                                    21 vehicular deaths
                                    6 people who died from asphyxiation or being restrained
                                    6 people who died from beatings or bludgeonings
                                    5 medical emergencies while in police custody
                                    31 taserings
                                    1 man (John Watson III) who was shot by police in 2019 but died in 2020.

                                    After we sorted through the data, here are some other startling facts about 2019’s officer-involved killings:

                                    A black person was three-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by cop than a white person.
                                    A Hispanic person was one-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white person
                                    An unarmed black person was three times more likely to be killed by police than a white person with no weapon
                                    An unarmed black person fleeing the scene was six times more likely than a white person to be killed by a police officer.

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • 89th8 89th

                                      @George-K said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                                      You know how many unarmed black men were shot and killed by police in 2019?

                                      1. That's right: thirteen.

                                      That was an interesting site.

                                      So, of the 999 people shot and killed by police last year, 55 were unarmed.

                                      Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.

                                      Or more importantly, of all of the people shot and killed by police, 1.4% are unarmed black people, and 2.5% are unarmed white people.

                                      Or even further, of all of the arrests last year, 0.00014% resulted in an unarmed black person being killed, and 0.00025% resulted in an unarmed white person being killed.

                                      CopperC Offline
                                      CopperC Offline
                                      Copper
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #25

                                      @89th said in Black Lives Don't Matter:

                                      Of the 55 unarmed, 45% were white and 25% were black.

                                      Those blm guys are going to feel so silly when they find out.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • 89th8 Offline
                                        89th8 Offline
                                        89th
                                        wrote on last edited by 89th
                                        #26

                                        @LuFins-Dad and @Doctor-Phibes Yeah I know those stats were just based on police shooting deaths, I wasn't sure where (or even if) I could find data on those other types of interactions.

                                        @Doctor-Phibes you're right it's about a mindset, but do you really think there is a substantial mindset out there of "that guy is black so I will rough him up?" or is it "that guy looks like the guy we are looking for (who happens to be black) so I'm going to go detain him" at which point resisting arrest is often [I would say nearly always] the reason interactions escalate to violence.

                                        And no, I saw that video of the Georgia man. Clearly the cop who walked up from behind to initiate the handcuffs was mistaken and looked like a ghost once he realized it wasn't the right guy. While the guy certainly has the right to sue, the larger question was...was he hurt because he was black? I'd say no. Again, no racist mindset. Perhaps a "using force too quickly" mindset, but not "I'm going to break this guys wrists because he's black."

                                        @George-K Not really sure how The Root came up with those conclusions based on the numbers. Maybe they account for per capita of the race's population? Of course that ignores the race's per capita contribution to crime.

                                        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • CopperC Offline
                                          CopperC Offline
                                          Copper
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #27

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