Mar-a-Lago raided
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 01:05 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Horace - One guy at the DOJ did and got a felony conviction for his efforts.
Right, a lawyer working for the FBI faked some evidence to facilitate an investigation into Trump and Russia.
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@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 01:08 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.
That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.
You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 02:36 last edited by jon-nyc 8 Oct 2022, 02:41
@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
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Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 02:38 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.
What, that people have emotions around bad cop behavior? As an inhabitant of reality, I acknowledge that in all situations.
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:20 last edited by jon-nyc 8 Oct 2022, 03:26
@Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The Dersh speaks:
I don’t know why people listen to Dersch or Tribe on the left. They’re simply old guys who harvested their former reputation in service of partisan ends. They are literally paid partisan shills.
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@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:38 last edited by jon-nyc 8 Oct 2022, 03:51@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.
So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.
Popcorn, please.
Also their messaging pretty much guarantees this isn’t merely about classified docs. After all, they have a defense for that - the president is the ultimate authority on classification and can declassify anything at will.
The “they planted evidence” messaging that they are rolling out means this is about very specific crimes.
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:43 last edited by
At least the FBI got to sniff Me!ania's panties.
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:49 last edited by
Didn’t she used to sell them on eBay during her soft porn phase?
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:49 last edited by
Don't know about that. You bought some?
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:53 last edited by xenon 8 Oct 2022, 03:54
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 03:56 last edited by
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 04:03 last edited by
The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.
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The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 04:08 last edited by
It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.
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It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 04:10 last edited by jon-nyc 8 Oct 2022, 04:15@xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.
10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.
That’s how personality cults work.
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@xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.
10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.
That’s how personality cults work.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 04:16 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
@xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.
10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.
That’s how cults work.
Actually calling the other political side a cult is how partisan hacks work. I don’t know how many people who would pull the lever for Trump would say out loud they think the election was stolen in 2020, but I suspect that number is smaller than the number of Biden voters who would attest to belief in fictitious oppression narratives. Is that a cult too?
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wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 04:26 last edited by jon-nyc 8 Oct 2022, 04:27
It’s an ideology and a religion. Maybe it’s a cult? I would have to think more deeply about where one definition ends and the other begins. My hesitancy is based on the fact that it lacks the unifying cult leader. But again, I’d have to think about it.
I am quite wary of both, as you know.
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It’s an ideology and a religion. Maybe it’s a cult? I would have to think more deeply about where one definition ends and the other begins. My hesitancy is based on the fact that it lacks the unifying cult leader. But again, I’d have to think about it.
I am quite wary of both, as you know.
wrote on 10 Aug 2022, 09:36 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:
It’s an ideology and a religion.
I call it the LALALA contingent. (Those Trumplovers who react to everything by sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.)
There can be no other explanation for their die-hard allegiance to the hero after all this time.
You have to wonder though how malleable is his base in actuality. Does it not stand to reason that some number have fallen away, have said, enough is enough? Especially since their reasoning was pretty fucked up to begin with. And it's way too early to say how many (if any) will fall away in the wake of this development.
It may be that the times are a-changin and leaving the pundits behind in their perspicacity and prognostications. Leaving them going, Da-rump de dump, which way did dey go?
This is loosy-goosey think, I know, but there is often if not always a lava-lamp quality to the culture. No sooner do the sociologists think they have it nailed, than it changes.
If nothing else, it'll make jury selection interesting.