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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Mar-a-Lago raided

Mar-a-Lago raided

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  • HoraceH Horace

    The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #130

    @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

    That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      @Horace - One guy at the DOJ did and got a felony conviction for his efforts.

      HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #131

      @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      @Horace - One guy at the DOJ did and got a felony conviction for his efforts.

      Right, a lawyer working for the FBI faked some evidence to facilitate an investigation into Trump and Russia.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

        That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

        HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #132

        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

        That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

        You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.

        Education is extremely important.

        jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Horace

          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

          That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

          You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.

          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #133

          @Horace

          Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #134

            @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

            So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

            Popcorn, please.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @Horace

              Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #135

              @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              @Horace

              Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

              What, that people have emotions around bad cop behavior? As an inhabitant of reality, I acknowledge that in all situations.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Jolly

                The Dersh speaks:

                https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/amp/

                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                #136

                @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                The Dersh speaks:

                https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/amp/

                I don’t know why people listen to Dersch or Tribe on the left. They’re simply old guys who harvested their former reputation in service of partisan ends. They are literally paid partisan shills.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

                  So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

                  Popcorn, please.

                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                  #137

                  @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                  The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

                  So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

                  Popcorn, please.

                  Also their messaging pretty much guarantees this isn’t merely about classified docs. After all, they have a defense for that - the president is the ultimate authority on classification and can declassify anything at will.

                  The “they planted evidence” messaging that they are rolling out means this is about very specific crimes.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #138

                    At least the FBI got to sniff Me!ania's panties.

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #139

                      Didn’t she used to sell them on eBay during her soft porn phase?

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Offline
                        JollyJ Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #140

                        Don't know about that. You bought some?

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • X Offline
                          X Offline
                          xenon
                          wrote on last edited by xenon
                          #141

                          A good old fashioned Trump controversy... tweet videos and all.

                          jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #142

                            He’s half right. They should stick to their no comment rules. We don’t need another Comey situation. Second half is right, though.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • X xenon

                              A good old fashioned Trump controversy... tweet videos and all.

                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #143

                              @xenon

                              They’re rolling out that messaging pretty hard. And keep in mind, unlike all of us, they know what the DOJ has and what they’re after and why. This seems like it is shaping up nicely.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #144

                                The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Horace

                                  The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.

                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                  #145

                                  @Horace Meh. He needs a holdout on a jury and to convince his base he’s innocent. The latter is guaranteed even if he beheads a litter of puppies on live television with a dull knife.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • X Offline
                                    X Offline
                                    xenon
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #146

                                    It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • X xenon

                                      It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #147

                                      @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                      It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                      10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                      That’s how personality cults work.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                        10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                        That’s how personality cults work.

                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #148

                                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                        10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                        That’s how cults work.

                                        Actually calling the other political side a cult is how partisan hacks work. I don’t know how many people who would pull the lever for Trump would say out loud they think the election was stolen in 2020, but I suspect that number is smaller than the number of Biden voters who would attest to belief in fictitious oppression narratives. Is that a cult too?

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                          #149

                                          It’s an ideology and a religion. Maybe it’s a cult? I would have to think more deeply about where one definition ends and the other begins. My hesitancy is based on the fact that it lacks the unifying cult leader. But again, I’d have to think about it.

                                          I am quite wary of both, as you know.

                                          Only non-witches get due process.

                                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                          Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
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