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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Mar-a-Lago raided

Mar-a-Lago raided

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

    That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

    HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #132

    @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

    The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

    That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

    You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.

    Education is extremely important.

    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Horace

      @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      @Horace said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

      The FBI has been shown to have faked evidence in the past, in its pursuit of Trump. Not that I think it's plausible that they'll do it with this sort of spotlight on the situation, but let's be fair to those who don't trust this process.

      That is a charitable argument. I’m curious if you would apply the analogous version of it to the jury in the OJ case too.

      You quoted me saying I don't think it's plausible that they'll plant evidence in this situation. I am trying to humanize those who might have suspicions in that direction, perhaps unsuccessfully. I'm trying to encourage us all to have more compassion for others. It's important to me, one of my primary principles. Caring for others.

      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #133

      @Horace

      Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #134

        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

        The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

        So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

        Popcorn, please.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          @Horace

          Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #135

          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

          @Horace

          Fair enough. And it’s a charitable view. An analogous argument can be and was used in defense of the OJ jury. I was curious if you’ve applied it to them.

          What, that people have emotions around bad cop behavior? As an inhabitant of reality, I acknowledge that in all situations.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Jolly

            The Dersh speaks:

            https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/amp/

            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #136

            @Jolly said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

            The Dersh speaks:

            https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/3594412-justice-department-should-have-subpoenaed-documents-not-raided-trumps-home/amp/

            I don’t know why people listen to Dersch or Tribe on the left. They’re simply old guys who harvested their former reputation in service of partisan ends. They are literally paid partisan shills.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

              So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

              Popcorn, please.

              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
              #137

              @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

              The thing to remember when listening to her is that she knows exactly what the FBI was looking for and why, and presumably what they found, at least of her client’s team is being honest with her.

              So the fact that she’s casting aspersions is not a good sign for team Trump. She’s pretending to speak in hypothetical terms, but she almost certainly knows what they found.

              Popcorn, please.

              Also their messaging pretty much guarantees this isn’t merely about classified docs. After all, they have a defense for that - the president is the ultimate authority on classification and can declassify anything at will.

              The “they planted evidence” messaging that they are rolling out means this is about very specific crimes.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #138

                At least the FBI got to sniff Me!ania's panties.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #139

                  Didn’t she used to sell them on eBay during her soft porn phase?

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #140

                    Don't know about that. You bought some?

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • X Offline
                      X Offline
                      xenon
                      wrote on last edited by xenon
                      #141

                      A good old fashioned Trump controversy... tweet videos and all.

                      jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #142

                        He’s half right. They should stick to their no comment rules. We don’t need another Comey situation. Second half is right, though.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • X xenon

                          A good old fashioned Trump controversy... tweet videos and all.

                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #143

                          @xenon

                          They’re rolling out that messaging pretty hard. And keep in mind, unlike all of us, they know what the DOJ has and what they’re after and why. This seems like it is shaping up nicely.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #144

                            The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Horace

                              The messaging about planted evidence won’t save a 2024 candidacy if the evidence indicates a crime people care about. I suppose TDS sufferers think enough credulous supporters would still show up for him. I doubt that.

                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                              #145

                              @Horace Meh. He needs a holdout on a jury and to convince his base he’s innocent. The latter is guaranteed even if he beheads a litter of puppies on live television with a dull knife.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • X Offline
                                X Offline
                                xenon
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #146

                                It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • X xenon

                                  It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                  #147

                                  @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                  It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                  10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                  That’s how personality cults work.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                    @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                    10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                    That’s how personality cults work.

                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #148

                                    @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    @xenon said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                    It's not a bad strategy at all. Him and his team have produced zero evidence for election fraud - doesn't stop a good chunk (most?) of his supporters from believing it.

                                    10s of millions of them. Probably 95% of GOP senators and half the representatives know it’s bullshit but are kept in line by fear of those 10s of millions.

                                    That’s how cults work.

                                    Actually calling the other political side a cult is how partisan hacks work. I don’t know how many people who would pull the lever for Trump would say out loud they think the election was stolen in 2020, but I suspect that number is smaller than the number of Biden voters who would attest to belief in fictitious oppression narratives. Is that a cult too?

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #149

                                      It’s an ideology and a religion. Maybe it’s a cult? I would have to think more deeply about where one definition ends and the other begins. My hesitancy is based on the fact that it lacks the unifying cult leader. But again, I’d have to think about it.

                                      I am quite wary of both, as you know.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        It’s an ideology and a religion. Maybe it’s a cult? I would have to think more deeply about where one definition ends and the other begins. My hesitancy is based on the fact that it lacks the unifying cult leader. But again, I’d have to think about it.

                                        I am quite wary of both, as you know.

                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #150

                                        @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                        It’s an ideology and a religion.

                                        I call it the LALALA contingent. (Those Trumplovers who react to everything by sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.)

                                        There can be no other explanation for their die-hard allegiance to the hero after all this time.

                                        You have to wonder though how malleable is his base in actuality. Does it not stand to reason that some number have fallen away, have said, enough is enough? Especially since their reasoning was pretty fucked up to begin with. And it's way too early to say how many (if any) will fall away in the wake of this development.

                                        It may be that the times are a-changin and leaving the pundits behind in their perspicacity and prognostications. Leaving them going, Da-rump de dump, which way did dey go?

                                        This is loosy-goosey think, I know, but there is often if not always a lava-lamp quality to the culture. No sooner do the sociologists think they have it nailed, than it changes.

                                        If nothing else, it'll make jury selection interesting.

                                        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Catseye3C Catseye3

                                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          It’s an ideology and a religion.

                                          I call it the LALALA contingent. (Those Trumplovers who react to everything by sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.)

                                          There can be no other explanation for their die-hard allegiance to the hero after all this time.

                                          You have to wonder though how malleable is his base in actuality. Does it not stand to reason that some number have fallen away, have said, enough is enough? Especially since their reasoning was pretty fucked up to begin with. And it's way too early to say how many (if any) will fall away in the wake of this development.

                                          It may be that the times are a-changin and leaving the pundits behind in their perspicacity and prognostications. Leaving them going, Da-rump de dump, which way did dey go?

                                          This is loosy-goosey think, I know, but there is often if not always a lava-lamp quality to the culture. No sooner do the sociologists think they have it nailed, than it changes.

                                          If nothing else, it'll make jury selection interesting.

                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #151

                                          @Catseye3 said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Mar-a-Lago raided:

                                          It’s an ideology and a religion.

                                          I call it the LALALA contingent. (Those Trumplovers who react to everything by sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA-LA-LA-LA-LA.)

                                          He was referring to certain Biden voters. It was an attempt to respond to me, to his credit. The conversation was followed. It happens sometimes here.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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