Texas shooting.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 16:41 last edited by
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
I already have said the first and easiest thing is to harden ingress to schools.
Hey, I'm down. I don't see how that would actually help against people who really want to commit some violence, but it'd be something to try.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 16:45 last edited by
It would have kept Ramos out.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 16:48 last edited by
Another suggestion? Keep classroom windows 6’ above grade or narrow enough to prevent a wide field of fire. Now this would only apply to schools built in the future, but it would work well if ingress was taken away.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 16:51 last edited by
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
Show up during bus arrival and it doesn't really matter.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 16:53 last edited by jon-nyc
Uvalde cops confront the trolly problem.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 17:02 last edited by
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
-
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
Show up during bus arrival and it doesn't really matter.
wrote on 28 May 2022, 17:04 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
Show up during bus arrival and it doesn't really matter.
His planning for this attack didn't seem advanced enough to coordinate with bus schedules. And the death count would likely have been lower if he had done it that way.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
Show up during bus arrival and it doesn't really matter.
His planning for this attack didn't seem advanced enough to coordinate with bus schedules. And the death count would likely have been lower if he had done it that way.
wrote on 28 May 2022, 17:44 last edited by@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
Show up during bus arrival and it doesn't really matter.
His planning for this attack didn't seem advanced enough to coordinate with bus schedules.
It doesn't take much to decide to show up at 4:00.
And the death count would likely have been lower if he had done it that way.
I doubt it.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 17:53 last edited by Mik
No approach is going to be foolproof. But locked doors would have helped or prevented this situation. Nothing you can suggest for gun control will be foolproof either and will be far more difficult.
It is said politics is the art of the possible.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 17:57 last edited by
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
-
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
wrote on 28 May 2022, 18:08 last edited by Horace@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job. It's easy to say each individual should go renegade and be dirty harry, but I think it's ignorant to think that would be the obvious decision in the moment. Unless you also think each individual who failed to make that obvious decision is a cowardly dirt bag. More likely that they're normal people, making normal decisions in an abnormal moment. But shitting on all of them will teach their counterparts throughout the country a lesson, so it's probably for the best.
-
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job. It's easy to say each individual should go renegade and be dirty harry, but I think it's ignorant to think that would be the obvious decision in the moment. Unless you also think each individual who failed to make that obvious decision is a cowardly dirt bag. More likely that they're normal people, making normal decisions in an abnormal moment. But shitting on all of them will teach their counterparts throughout the country a lesson, so it's probably for the best.
wrote on 28 May 2022, 18:35 last edited by@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.
Ah, the Nuremberg defense.
-
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.
Ah, the Nuremberg defense.
wrote on 28 May 2022, 18:37 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.
Ah, the Nuremberg defense.
You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 18:48 last edited by 89th
@Mik said in Texas shooting.:
It would have kept Ramos out.
11:27 a.m. — Video footage shows a teacher at Robb Elementary propping open an exterior door. Ramos reportedly entered through this door.
11:28 a.m. — Ramos’ vehicle crashes near the school. A teacher ran back to a classroom to get a phone and came back to the door, allowing it to remain open. Two men, at a nearby funeral home, made their way to the crash scene where they saw Ramos exit the vehicle from the passenger side with a gun and backpack. The witnesses reportedly began running and Ramos tried shooting at them.
11:30 a.m. — 911 receives a phone call that there was a man who crashed his vehicle and has a gun.
11:31 a.m. — Ramos “reaches the last row of vehicles in the school parking lot,” McCraw said. The 18-year-old began shooting at the school, while police responded to the funeral home. McCraw adds that previous statements that officers confronted Ramos were inaccurate, and that an officer who heard the 911 call “drove immediately to the area he thought was the man with the gun, to the back of the school, which turned out to be a teacher.” McCraw said the officer drove by the suspect, who was “hunkered down behind a vehicle.”
11:32 a.m. — Ramos fires multiple shots at the school from outside, then enters the building.
11:33 a.m. — Ramos begins shooting in a classroom. McCraw says audio evidence from video footage shows Ramos shooting over 100 rounds.
11:35 a.m. — Three officers enter the school through the same doors that Ramos reportedly entered. Later, four more officers joined. The initial three officers were shot at, and some were grazed by bullets. Ramos shut the door to the classroom.
11:37 a.m. — Over 16 rounds are fired.
11:51 a.m. — More police begin to arrive.
12:03 p.m. — As many as 19 police officers were in the hallway outside the classroom. McCraw said they believed the active shooter situation had transitioned into a barricaded person call. A female caller dialed 911 from the classroom. The length of the call was less than 90 seconds. She said her name and said she was in classroom 112.
12:10 p.m. — The caller tells 911 that multiple people were dead.
12:13 p.m. — The female calls 911 again.
12:15 p.m. — More technicians arrive with shields.
12:16 p.m. — Female calls 911 again, adding that eight to nine students are still alive.
12:19 p.m. — Another person, in room 111 called 911. “She hung up when another student told her to hang up,” McCraw said.
12:21 p.m. — Suspect fires more shots at the door. Law enforcement moved down the hallway. A 911 call also captured three shots being fired.
12:36 p.m. — Another 911 call lasted for 21 seconds. The caller, a student, stayed on the line quietly. “She told 911 that he shot the door,” McCraw said, adding that the student asked 911 to “please send the police now.”
12:46 p.m. — Student tells 911 she can hear police next door.
12:50 p.m. — Officers breach the door using keys obtained from a janitor and kill the suspect.
12:51 p.m. — The 911 call was “loud” and “sounded like officers were moving children out of the room,” McCraw said.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 18:50 last edited by
The above is the timeline. That exterior door was obv a fatal error in retrospect. Ramos was firing at the school from the parking lot at first, didn’t seem like he had a plan but probably saw that door was propped open.
-
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
Actually, I gave you recommendations the other day from a guy that did executive security.
How well does "executive security" translates to "public school security"?
Security for a billionaire, his/her immediate family, and his/her entourage has got to have many significant differences than security for hundreds and thousands of public school children, right? The difference in cost of security $ per protected person has got to be huge, right?
wrote on 28 May 2022, 19:04 last edited by@Axtremus said in Texas shooting.:
@Jolly said in Texas shooting.:
Actually, I gave you recommendations the other day from a guy that did executive security.
How well does "executive security" translates to "public school security"?
Security for a billionaire, his/her immediate family, and his/her entourage has got to have many significant differences than security for hundreds and thousands of public school children, right? The difference in cost of security $ per protected person has got to be huge, right?
In some respects, no.
It's all about how to negate a threat and different venues, people, etc., will call for different responses using the resources allocated unto you.
-
wrote on 28 May 2022, 20:12 last edited by
You get screened going into all sorts of public buildings and arenas. Should schools with our children be less secure?
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.
Ah, the Nuremberg defense.
You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.
wrote on 28 May 2022, 21:15 last edited by@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
@jon-nyc said in Texas shooting.:
@Horace said in Texas shooting.:
The country is going to take such a massive shit on those cops.
Deserved, no?
Probably deserved by one of them, some decision maker. Then the others fell in line, as is their job.
Ah, the Nuremberg defense.
You just keep on doing something. It's impressive.
What's impressive to me is to defend these assholes in particular while hating firefighters generally.
-
Should anyplace be less secure?
It used to be post offices and military bases.
Did they become more secure or did the focus shift?
wrote on 28 May 2022, 21:16 last edited byI suspect if lots of money is spent hardening schools that a fair amount of time is going to be spent explaining how an attack that occurred just wasn’t possible
I honestly don’t think that turning our children’s places of work, and in some cases their refuge, into fortresses is a good idea at all. What kind of message does it send? Aren’t we already being accused of being the overprotective generation?
