The Ukraine war thread
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Here’s the current reality as described by the President of Finland this weekend. Finns know the Russians, know where Putin is determined to take this war and how the West must respond. They have first hand experience with the Kremlin and remember the hard lessons history has taught their nation:
Alexander Stubb, President of Finland speaks:
https://www.facebook.com/swedishveterans/videos/1029926085633089/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader. Biden was a corpse and Trump is a headline-chaser.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Here’s the current reality as described by the President of Finland this weekend. Finns know the Russians, know where Putin is determined to take this war and how the West must respond. They have first hand experience with the Kremlin and remember the hard lessons history has taught their nation:
Alexander Stubb, President of Finland speaks:
https://www.facebook.com/swedishveterans/videos/1029926085633089/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader. Biden was a corpse and Trump is a headline-chaser.
@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader.
Hillary could do it.
Romney could do it.
Mayor Pete could do it. -
@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader.
Hillary could do it.
Romney could do it.
Mayor Pete could do it.Yes Romney could do it, as I’m sure Nikki Halley could as well.
Hilary Clinton though, I have my serious doubts. Her term as Sect’y of State is part of the reason the world is where it’s at right now.
Don’t know enough about the Mayor Pete chap to say ether way..
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@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader.
Hillary could do it.
Romney could do it.
Mayor Pete could do it.@Axtremus said in The Ukraine war thread:
@89th said in The Ukraine war thread:
It's refreshing to hear such clarity and organized thought from a leader.
Hillary could do it.
Romney could do it.
Mayor Pete could do it.- Lose?
- Lose?
- Lose?
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Some people say if you watch the tape carefully, Zelensky called Vance a bitch. Not in English, of course...
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
Having said that, there’s no reasonable definition of ‘bitch’ that Vance wouldn’t clear.
Well, strictly speaking he's not actually canine.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Some people say if you watch the tape carefully, Zelensky called Vance a bitch. Not in English, of course...
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Some people say if you watch the tape carefully, Zelensky called Vance a bitch. Not in English, of course...
The swear expression сука блять (syka blyat’) is Russian not Ukrainian, and is commonly used in the contemporary lexicon of both languages. Ukrainians whose families originated in Western Ukraine (under Austria and Poland) then immigrated to North America before WWII, would not use it, as their swearing would be closer to the Polish kurwa mać example in the tweet.
In any case, the term suka blyat’ is a vulgar expression of frustration or exasperation at something or at what someone either did or said. Although it cannot be translated directly into English, it is the Russian equivalent of saying Aw, for fuck sakes! or,as noted in the Tweet, fucking hell!. In any case, it is not a vulgar epithet directed at an individual person like calling them a “bitter asshole* or a “goddamned prick”.
So it is bullshit to accuse Zelensky of calling Baby Face Vance a “fucking bitch” as some ignoramuses might maintain.
Elbows up!
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So there seems to be some thought that Vance just absolutely torpedoed his future. That was not what Trump was looking for. If you watch the full 40 minutes, you will see that Trump is actually trying to be somewhat conciliatory, while still being his typical grandiose asshole self. He’s trying to work a deal, and he can’t work a deal by being an asshole to the primary adversary. So he is not going to call Putin a terrorist or a dictator. He wants to bring him to the table. And while Trump has a personal intense dislike for Zelenskyy, he will work with him in the interest of coming across as the great peacemaker and getting his Nobel… But, Zelenskyy keeps pushing for security guarantees in this setting, and Trump wants to hold that card in his deck for the negotiations with Putin. Still, Trump comes very close to saying there are Security Agreements through this deal. He talks about European boots on the ground and he comes just short of saying American boots, but strongly suggests it. The point is that Trump is not going to make those promises until they are actually negotiating the deal with Putin, because Zelenskyy is proving to be an unstable partner promising no concessions to Russia at all. Trump might very well need to use the Security Agreements to close the deal with Zelenskyy, but they need Putin at the table.
So Trump tries to play it low key, snd then Vance, rather than trying to end the press conference and moving them back behind closed doors instead decides to chuck a few grenades into the room. Things devolve from there.
Vance is moving himself out of favor quickly. I think he’s too much of a true believer and not enough of a businessman for Trump’s taste.
The Brad
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If anything, Vance's stock went up with the base.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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So there seems to be some thought that Vance just absolutely torpedoed his future. That was not what Trump was looking for. If you watch the full 40 minutes, you will see that Trump is actually trying to be somewhat conciliatory, while still being his typical grandiose asshole self. He’s trying to work a deal, and he can’t work a deal by being an asshole to the primary adversary. So he is not going to call Putin a terrorist or a dictator. He wants to bring him to the table. And while Trump has a personal intense dislike for Zelenskyy, he will work with him in the interest of coming across as the great peacemaker and getting his Nobel… But, Zelenskyy keeps pushing for security guarantees in this setting, and Trump wants to hold that card in his deck for the negotiations with Putin. Still, Trump comes very close to saying there are Security Agreements through this deal. He talks about European boots on the ground and he comes just short of saying American boots, but strongly suggests it. The point is that Trump is not going to make those promises until they are actually negotiating the deal with Putin, because Zelenskyy is proving to be an unstable partner promising no concessions to Russia at all. Trump might very well need to use the Security Agreements to close the deal with Zelenskyy, but they need Putin at the table.
So Trump tries to play it low key, snd then Vance, rather than trying to end the press conference and moving them back behind closed doors instead decides to chuck a few grenades into the room. Things devolve from there.
Vance is moving himself out of favor quickly. I think he’s too much of a true believer and not enough of a businessman for Trump’s taste.
On the other hand, Zelenskyi made the cardinal error of not communicating through a professional interpreter. Putin, I understand speaks, reads and writes absolutely fluent German via his training as a KGB counterintelligence officer. I am also told that his understanding of written and spoken English is excellent. Yet in every last public meeting with Angela Merkel, Putin spoke to her in Russian and through an interpreter. Likewise, the reverse she could speak and understand Russian, but so too used only German through an interpreter into Russian.
I suspect that Zelenskyi over the past three years had grown too comfortable with his American, British and Canadian contacts and forgot that his spoken English and comprehension, while good, is not wholly fluent. It is in fact his third language after Russian and Ukrainian. The presence of an active interpreter would have slowed down the exchange and forced the three of them to think about the actual message they wanted to communicate. As it was, Zelenskyi brain was thinking in Ukrainian while his mouth was reacting in English. As for the other two clowns, the presence of an interpreter would have damped down histrionics and squelch as it would be ridiculously apparent that they would be only yelling and finger pointing at an interpreter.
I noticed this weekend at the UK Security Summit, that Zelenskyi only spoke Ukrainian relied on an interpreter to translate into English. Friday came as a hard lesson to him.
But overall I agree with what you wrote. Trump ought to have muzzled or choke chain and corrected his baby faced pit bull pup the moment it started to bark.
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@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Some people say if you watch the tape carefully, Zelensky called Vance a bitch. Not in English, of course...
The swear expression сука блять (syka blyat’) is Russian not Ukrainian, and is commonly used in the contemporary lexicon of both languages. Ukrainians whose families originated in Western Ukraine (under Austria and Poland) then immigrated to North America before WWII, would not use it, as their swearing would be closer to the Polish kurwa mać example in the tweet.
In any case, the term suka blyat’ is a vulgar expression of frustration or exasperation at something or at what someone either did or said. Although it cannot be translated directly into English, it is the Russian equivalent of saying Aw, for fuck sakes! or,as noted in the Tweet, fucking hell!. In any case, it is not a vulgar epithet directed at an individual person like calling them a “bitter asshole* or a “goddamned prick”.
So it is bullshit to accuse Zelensky of calling Baby Face Vance a “fucking bitch” as some ignoramuses might maintain.
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
The swear expression сука блять (syka blyat’) is Russian not Ukrainian, and is commonly used in the contemporary lexicon of both languages. Ukrainians whose families originated in Western Ukraine (under Austria and Poland) then immigrated to North America before WWII, would not use it, as their swearing would be closer to the Polish kurwa mać example in the tweet.
In any case, the term syka blyat’ is a vulgar expression of frustration or exasperation at something or at what someone either did or said. Although it cannot be translated directly into English, it is the Russian equivalent of saying Aw, for fuck sakes! or,as noted in the Tweet, fucking hell!. In any case, it is not a vulgar epithet directed at an individual person like calling them a “bitter asshole* or a “goddamned prick”.
When I was in Serbia, they liked teaching me swear words. I still remember (I think) that "son of a b*tch" is "kurvin sin" (dont think that is spelled right - pronounced like "coor veen seen". Somewhat close to the Polish word. I am sure they all relate on the Slavic language family tree (though I dont think Polish is Slavic.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
U.S. aid to Ukraine put on indefinite pause.
Is congress supposed to have any role here? Genuine question.
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So there seems to be some thought that Vance just absolutely torpedoed his future. That was not what Trump was looking for. If you watch the full 40 minutes, you will see that Trump is actually trying to be somewhat conciliatory, while still being his typical grandiose asshole self. He’s trying to work a deal, and he can’t work a deal by being an asshole to the primary adversary. So he is not going to call Putin a terrorist or a dictator. He wants to bring him to the table. And while Trump has a personal intense dislike for Zelenskyy, he will work with him in the interest of coming across as the great peacemaker and getting his Nobel… But, Zelenskyy keeps pushing for security guarantees in this setting, and Trump wants to hold that card in his deck for the negotiations with Putin. Still, Trump comes very close to saying there are Security Agreements through this deal. He talks about European boots on the ground and he comes just short of saying American boots, but strongly suggests it. The point is that Trump is not going to make those promises until they are actually negotiating the deal with Putin, because Zelenskyy is proving to be an unstable partner promising no concessions to Russia at all. Trump might very well need to use the Security Agreements to close the deal with Zelenskyy, but they need Putin at the table.
So Trump tries to play it low key, snd then Vance, rather than trying to end the press conference and moving them back behind closed doors instead decides to chuck a few grenades into the room. Things devolve from there.
Vance is moving himself out of favor quickly. I think he’s too much of a true believer and not enough of a businessman for Trump’s taste.
@LuFins-Dad said in The Ukraine war thread:
So there seems to be some thought that Vance just absolutely torpedoed his future. That was not what Trump was looking for. If you watch the full 40 minutes, you will see that Trump is actually trying to be somewhat conciliatory, while still being his typical grandiose asshole self. He’s trying to work a deal, and he can’t work a deal by being an asshole to the primary adversary. So he is not going to call Putin a terrorist or a dictator. He wants to bring him to the table. And while Trump has a personal intense dislike for Zelenskyy, he will work with him in the interest of coming across as the great peacemaker and getting his Nobel… But, Zelenskyy keeps pushing for security guarantees in this setting, and Trump wants to hold that card in his deck for the negotiations with Putin. Still, Trump comes very close to saying there are Security Agreements through this deal. He talks about European boots on the ground and he comes just short of saying American boots, but strongly suggests it. The point is that Trump is not going to make those promises until they are actually negotiating the deal with Putin, because Zelenskyy is proving to be an unstable partner promising no concessions to Russia at all. Trump might very well need to use the Security Agreements to close the deal with Zelenskyy, but they need Putin at the table.
So Trump tries to play it low key, snd then Vance, rather than trying to end the press conference and moving them back behind closed doors instead decides to chuck a few grenades into the room. Things devolve from there.
Vance is moving himself out of favor quickly. I think he’s too much of a true believer and not enough of a businessman for Trump’s taste.
Good summary. I enjoyed watching the whole thing too. It was intriguing. I agree Trump was holding back until Vance blew it up. I think both men were likely saying in private how Zelenskyy was making their deal hard and being ungrateful and Vance just went unfiltered in the moment. Bad move but not sure Trump cares imo.
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Everyone’s worked with a JD Vance. In a meeting w/ the boss, 100% focused on scoring points for himself, every inch of his headspace directed at that purpose: "Is this a good opening for me? Maybe now?" Completely uninterested in what might be harmed in the process.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
U.S. aid to Ukraine put on indefinite pause.
Is congress supposed to have any role here? Genuine question.
@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
U.S. aid to Ukraine put on indefinite pause.
Is congress supposed to have any role here? Genuine question.
And a common one lately too.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
U.S. aid to Ukraine put on indefinite pause.
Is congress supposed to have any role here? Genuine question.
@xenon said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
U.S. aid to Ukraine put on indefinite pause.
Is congress supposed to have any role here? Genuine question.
DOGE might recommend its elimination. It appears to waste money, is morally corrupt and currently, seems to be unnecessary.
