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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • JollyJ Jolly

    @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

    I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

    I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #1657

    @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

    @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

    I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

    I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

    If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

    Please love yourself.

    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

      @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

      I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

      The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on last edited by
      #1658

      @Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:

      @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

      I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

      The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

      You mean how everyone sat on their ass and let Ukraine Poland be whatever until things got weird in France and oh hey, maybe we should do something about this?

      Please love yourself.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

        @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

        I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

        I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

        If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

        JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #1659

        @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

        @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

        @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

        I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

        I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

        If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

        That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

          I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

          If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

          That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by
          #1660

          @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

          @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

          I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

          If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

          That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

          I think the last century taught us that it's better to get involved in situations that can potentially affect everyone as soon as possible, rather than wait for the problem to get worse.

          But that's as far as I'm willing to go with having an opinion. I'm not even close to an international politics or military expert.

          Please love yourself.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #1661

            As I see it...

            1. USA
            2. North America
            3. Tie. South America/Europe
            4. Australia
            5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
            6. Everything else.

            And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

            I have an open mind.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              As I see it...

              1. USA
              2. North America
              3. Tie. South America/Europe
              4. Australia
              5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
              6. Everything else.

              And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

              I have an open mind.

              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua Letifer
              wrote on last edited by
              #1662

              @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

              As I see it...

              1. USA
              2. North America
              3. Tie. South America/Europe
              4. Australia
              5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
              6. Everything else.

              And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

              I have an open mind.

              I think a lot of people would argue that Russia's machinations have a direct and material impact on numbers 1-3.

              Please love yourself.

              W 1 Reply Last reply
              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                As I see it...

                1. USA
                2. North America
                3. Tie. South America/Europe
                4. Australia
                5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
                6. Everything else.

                And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

                I have an open mind.

                I think a lot of people would argue that Russia's machinations have a direct and material impact on numbers 1-3.

                W Offline
                W Offline
                Wim
                wrote on last edited by
                #1663

                @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                Aqua LetiferA JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                • W Wim

                  @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1664

                  @Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                  Well, there's that, too.

                  Please love yourself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • W Wim

                    @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1665

                    @Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

                    @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                    Starting to wonder about China. The Belt and Road looks like it needs suspenders...

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1666

                      I think China's plans are somewhat based on an assumption that the US is a power in decline. I think they are wrong in that. Our innate ability to right our own ship is something they lack.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Mik

                        I think China's plans are somewhat based on an assumption that the US is a power in decline. I think they are wrong in that. Our innate ability to right our own ship is something they lack.

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1667

                        @Mik

                        What you refer to as innate ability, is the fact that the US has very robust institutions of democratic governance that have been built up and improved upon over time. Such is not the case for Russia and China.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1668

                          Spot on.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Offline
                            MikM Offline
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1669

                            https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-preparing-russians-for-defeats-in-ukraine/ar-AA1blsKw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f5f9c7c659494501cc4c03ba113fdc6c&ei=55

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1670

                              Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                              https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              MikM 1 Reply Last reply
                              • JollyJ Offline
                                JollyJ Offline
                                Jolly
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1671

                                The Russians are getting better.

                                OTOH, Ukranian pilots shocked the USAF recently. After rolling them through a brief F-16 simulator training, the Air Force thinks they can have the Ukrainians flight tested in the F-16 and combat ready in 120 days.

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG George K

                                  Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                                  https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                                  MikM Offline
                                  MikM Offline
                                  Mik
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1672

                                  @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                                  https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                                  It was by all accounts a Pyrrhic victory.

                                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1673

                                    Yes, but what it does give them, is a victory, of which they have had very few of late.

                                    It also puts the Russians into artillery range of two larger, more industrialized cities.

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Jolly

                                      Yes, but what it does give them, is a victory, of which they have had very few of late.

                                      It also puts the Russians into artillery range of two larger, more industrialized cities.

                                      George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1674

                                      @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                      It also puts the Russians into artillery range of two larger, more industrialized cities.

                                      "If the enemy is in range, so are you."

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                        #1675

                                        Prigozhin and the Kremlin can say what they want and, as the saying in Russian goes, try to make candy out of a turd.

                                        My hunch is that Bakhmut has not fallen to the Russians. Instead the Russians in Bakhmut have been surrounded on all sides by advancing Ukrainian forces.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Renauda

                                          Prigozhin and the Kremlin can say what they want and, as the saying in Russian goes, try to make candy out of a turd.

                                          My hunch is that Bakhmut has not fallen to the Russians. Instead the Russians in Bakhmut have been surrounded on all sides by advancing Ukrainian forces.

                                          George KG Offline
                                          George KG Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #1676

                                          @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          My hunch is that Bakhmut has not fallen to the Russians. Instead the Russians in Bakhmut have been surrounded on all sides by advancing Ukrainian forces.

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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