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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • M Away
    M Away
    Mik
    wrote on 17 May 2023, 11:10 last edited by
    #1653

    I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    D J 2 Replies Last reply 17 May 2023, 12:39
    • M Mik
      17 May 2023, 11:10

      I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

      D Offline
      D Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on 17 May 2023, 12:39 last edited by
      #1654

      @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

      I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

      The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

      I was only joking

      A 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 15:08
      • M Away
        M Away
        Mik
        wrote on 17 May 2023, 12:47 last edited by
        #1655

        Putin doesn't have the economic base to recreate German aggression in the 30's and 40's, but smacking this invasion down hard will make future adventures less likely, especially if the west hangs together.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • M Mik
          17 May 2023, 11:10

          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on 17 May 2023, 12:54 last edited by
          #1656

          @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

          I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

          I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          A 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 15:05
          • J Jolly
            17 May 2023, 12:54

            @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

            I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

            I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

            A Offline
            A Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on 17 May 2023, 15:05 last edited by
            #1657

            @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

            @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

            I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

            I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

            If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

            Please love yourself.

            J 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 16:35
            • D Doctor Phibes
              17 May 2023, 12:39

              @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

              I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

              The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

              A Offline
              A Offline
              Aqua Letifer
              wrote on 17 May 2023, 15:08 last edited by
              #1658

              @Doctor-Phibes said in The Ukraine war thread:

              @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

              I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

              The 1930's are supposed to be a warning, not a guide.

              You mean how everyone sat on their ass and let Ukraine Poland be whatever until things got weird in France and oh hey, maybe we should do something about this?

              Please love yourself.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • A Aqua Letifer
                17 May 2023, 15:05

                @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

                J Offline
                J Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on 17 May 2023, 16:35 last edited by
                #1659

                @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

                @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

                That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                A 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 16:59
                • J Jolly
                  17 May 2023, 16:35

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                  I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                  If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

                  That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

                  A Offline
                  A Offline
                  Aqua Letifer
                  wrote on 17 May 2023, 16:59 last edited by
                  #1660

                  @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  I think he genuinely believes Ukraine is not an American issue. I disagree vehemently.

                  I think Trump believes Ukraine is primarily a European issue and the Europeans should be the leaders on countering Russian aggression.

                  If they don't, though, is it worth watching it from afar because we shouldn't have been the ones to do the legwork?

                  That's a really good question ad one where I think there are good people on both sides of the issue.

                  I think the last century taught us that it's better to get involved in situations that can potentially affect everyone as soon as possible, rather than wait for the problem to get worse.

                  But that's as far as I'm willing to go with having an opinion. I'm not even close to an international politics or military expert.

                  Please love yourself.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J Offline
                    J Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on 17 May 2023, 18:06 last edited by
                    #1661

                    As I see it...

                    1. USA
                    2. North America
                    3. Tie. South America/Europe
                    4. Australia
                    5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
                    6. Everything else.

                    And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

                    I have an open mind.

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    A 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 18:22
                    • J Jolly
                      17 May 2023, 18:06

                      As I see it...

                      1. USA
                      2. North America
                      3. Tie. South America/Europe
                      4. Australia
                      5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
                      6. Everything else.

                      And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

                      I have an open mind.

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on 17 May 2023, 18:22 last edited by
                      #1662

                      @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      As I see it...

                      1. USA
                      2. North America
                      3. Tie. South America/Europe
                      4. Australia
                      5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
                      6. Everything else.

                      And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

                      I have an open mind.

                      I think a lot of people would argue that Russia's machinations have a direct and material impact on numbers 1-3.

                      Please love yourself.

                      W 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 19:02
                      • A Aqua Letifer
                        17 May 2023, 18:22

                        @Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        As I see it...

                        1. USA
                        2. North America
                        3. Tie. South America/Europe
                        4. Australia
                        5. South Pacific, including Japan, the Phillipines and South Korea.
                        6. Everything else.

                        And past #3, I'll bend like Gumby.

                        I have an open mind.

                        I think a lot of people would argue that Russia's machinations have a direct and material impact on numbers 1-3.

                        W Offline
                        W Offline
                        Wim
                        wrote on 17 May 2023, 19:02 last edited by
                        #1663

                        @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                        A J 2 Replies Last reply 17 May 2023, 19:02
                        • W Wim
                          17 May 2023, 19:02

                          @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                          A Offline
                          A Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on 17 May 2023, 19:02 last edited by
                          #1664

                          @Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

                          @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                          Well, there's that, too.

                          Please love yourself.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • W Wim
                            17 May 2023, 19:02

                            @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on 17 May 2023, 19:46 last edited by
                            #1665

                            @Wim said in The Ukraine war thread:

                            @Aqua-Letifer You're a little bit wrong. Depending on what Russia will/won't achieve, China will adapt its strategies to what the USA will/won't do.

                            Starting to wonder about China. The Belt and Road looks like it needs suspenders...

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • M Away
                              M Away
                              Mik
                              wrote on 17 May 2023, 19:51 last edited by
                              #1666

                              I think China's plans are somewhat based on an assumption that the US is a power in decline. I think they are wrong in that. Our innate ability to right our own ship is something they lack.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              R 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2023, 21:38
                              • M Mik
                                17 May 2023, 19:51

                                I think China's plans are somewhat based on an assumption that the US is a power in decline. I think they are wrong in that. Our innate ability to right our own ship is something they lack.

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 17 May 2023, 21:38 last edited by
                                #1667

                                @Mik

                                What you refer to as innate ability, is the fact that the US has very robust institutions of democratic governance that have been built up and improved upon over time. Such is not the case for Russia and China.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • M Away
                                  M Away
                                  Mik
                                  wrote on 17 May 2023, 22:02 last edited by
                                  #1668

                                  Spot on.

                                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • M Away
                                    M Away
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on 18 May 2023, 12:34 last edited by
                                    #1669

                                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-preparing-russians-for-defeats-in-ukraine/ar-AA1blsKw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f5f9c7c659494501cc4c03ba113fdc6c&ei=55

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • G Offline
                                      G Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on 21 May 2023, 11:10 last edited by
                                      #1670

                                      Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                                      https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      M 1 Reply Last reply 21 May 2023, 16:54
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on 21 May 2023, 16:28 last edited by
                                        #1671

                                        The Russians are getting better.

                                        OTOH, Ukranian pilots shocked the USAF recently. After rolling them through a brief F-16 simulator training, the Air Force thinks they can have the Ukrainians flight tested in the F-16 and combat ready in 120 days.

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • G George K
                                          21 May 2023, 11:10

                                          Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                                          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                                          M Away
                                          M Away
                                          Mik
                                          wrote on 21 May 2023, 16:54 last edited by
                                          #1672

                                          @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          Bakhmut has fallen to the Russians.

                                          https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-important-is-claimed-capture-by-russias-wagner-group-ukraines-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

                                          It was by all accounts a Pyrrhic victory.

                                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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