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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #1416

    35 days? Quite a lot, I should think.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #1417

      US basic training is 10 weeks. I imagine at least half of that is learning "how to soldier."

      Yeah, 5 weeks might be OK.

      Screenshot 2023-02-21 at 3.56.08 PM.png

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by Renauda
        #1418

        Whatever it is, 35 days more training, care and attention than any conscripted Russian grunt after a year of national service gets.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Offline
          MikM Offline
          Mik
          wrote on last edited by
          #1419

          It's specific training on the weaponry they will be using and tactics for them. Like Renauda said, far greater than Russian grunts.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            It's specific training on the weaponry they will be using and tactics for them. Like Renauda said, far greater than Russian grunts.

            RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by
            #1420

            @Mik

            It’s safe assume that these Ukrainian troops have already been “blooded” and have thus learned a practical degree of technical and combat savvy.

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • MikM Offline
              MikM Offline
              Mik
              wrote on last edited by
              #1421

              I should think so.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #1422

                https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/21/qa-dr-pavel-felgenhauer-russia-ukraine-war

                Some of the comments:
                =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                Al Jazeera spoke to Pavel Felgenhauer, a Russian defence analyst who served as a senior research officer in the Soviet Academy of Sciences.

                Al Jazeera: Why do you think an escalation is imminent?

                Pavel Felgenhauer: We cannot totally predict everything. But I believe that an escalation right now is imminent. An escalation in the fighting; everyone is talking about a Russian offensive. Western military commanders in Brussels are also talking about how the Ukrainians should go on the offensive.

                Al Jazeera: Isn’t Russia faring better than expected? Doesn’t the economy seem to be stable even after strict sanctions?

                Felgenhauer: Russia, of course right now, has very serious financial problems with a deficit that’s being financed by printing money. It has problems on the battlefield at the same time.

                I don’t see how this can continue in the present pattern for a long time. It’s like football, you never know what’s going to happen actually on the battlefield. There’s a well-known saying that “Russia is never a strong as your fear”, as we see during this year, but “Russia is also never as weak as you hope”. So you can’t just write off Russia. The intensity of the fighting is too high for it to be maintained for long.

                Al Jazeera: If it is such a drag, why did Russian President Vladimir Putin go to war?

                Felgenhauer: There was a military reason — to prevent Western missiles appearing in Ukraine for a direct strike on Moscow.

                There was a geopolitical reason — to reunite the Russian people, assuming that Ukrainians are Russian people, and to defy the West and actually undermine Western unity.

                Also, to cause friction within the Western alliance and also establish a new multipolar world.

                Al Jazeera: So what went wrong for Russia?

                Felgenhauer: The Russian military turned out to be not as strong as not only the West believes, but its own leadership believes. It’s not ready for modern warfare.

                The Ukrainians are much better, they were better prepared organisationally and in terms of command and control, in terms of command personnel, and then they got better weapons than the Russians.

                The Russian military has been isolated for more than 100 years from world tendencies in war-making. They are still living in the world of tanks, believing that if you mass enough, victory falls into your lap.

                Al Jazeera: Do you believe that this conflict will come to its end soon?

                Felgenhauer: I believe it will end this year.

                They tried talks in March, then meetings in Istanbul, which hinted that they’re moving towards some kind of an agreement. But Russia and Ukraine were miles apart.

                Ukraine was more or less ready to agree in February 2022. Now Ukrainians say they want more and Russia also says it wants more. So again, two sides are miles apart.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1423

                  Problematic polarization between Russia and Ukraine notwithstanding, it’s a hopeful assessment.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    Problematic polarization between Russia and Ukraine notwithstanding, it’s a hopeful assessment.

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #1424

                    @Mik

                    Check out my link with Stephen Kotkin’s analysis in the Bolton thread. A decidedly more sober assessment.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Offline
                      MikM Offline
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1425

                      My concern is what does Putin do if and when his conventional forces are exhausted and no victory in sight.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Mik

                        My concern is what does Putin do if and when his conventional forces are exhausted and no victory in sight.

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1426

                        @Mik

                        That might prove to be the opportunity for a position of strength diplomatic solution imposing an armistice on both sides. That is more or less Kotkin’s solution in the link.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1427

                          Only had time to listen to half of it. He was talking about that when I had to leave. He made great points about it being a war of attrition and that we are not ramping up production. A mistake in my book.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Mik

                            Only had time to listen to half of it. He was talking about that when I had to leave. He made great points about it being a war of attrition and that we are not ramping up production. A mistake in my book.

                            RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by Renauda
                            #1428

                            @Mik

                            I agree, Kotkin makes a lot of sense regarding it being a war of attrition and just what that means to all parties. You’ll see how he ties everything together later on when he adds China into the mix of his analysis.

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1429

                              Massively ramping up production would be a much bigger message than a trip to Kiev. I’m not dissing the trip, I just think that action would have spoken louder.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                #1430

                                I wager that all NATO members will soon have no choice other than to ramp up their military production and allocate fiscal resources into defence and security.

                                Will be a hard pill for the federal and even provincial governments in this country to have to swallow.

                                Elbows up!

                                MikM 1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1431

                                  Guns or butter.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • RenaudaR Renauda

                                    I wager that all NATO members will soon have no choice other than to ramp up their military production and allocate fiscal resources into defence and security.

                                    Will be a hard pill for the federal and even provincial governments in this country to have to swallow.

                                    MikM Offline
                                    MikM Offline
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #1432

                                    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    I wager that all NATO members will soon have no choice other than to ramp up their military production and allocate fiscal resources into defence and security.

                                    Will be a hard pill for the federal and even provincial governments in this country to have to swallow.

                                    God, I hope they will.

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Jolly

                                      Guns or butter.

                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                      #1433

                                      @Jolly

                                      Constitutionally in this country guns are a federal responsibility and butter is a provincial responsibility. I see no problem provided both are willing to cut duplication and waste.

                                      I wish it were as simple in practice as the constitution defines it.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1434

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #1435

                                          https://globalnews.ca/news/9505763/ukrainian-flag-paint-road-russian-embassy-london/amp/

                                          Elbows up!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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