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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Issues with the IHME model.

Issues with the IHME model.

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  • LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote on last edited by
    #11

    8 weeks ago I predicted that at the end of this, those that were very concerned about this would be saying I told you so. I also predicted that those that said this isn’t that bad and we’re overreacting would be able to say the same. I stand by those predictions.

    The Brad

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #12

      https://www.sydney.edu.au/data-science/

      n international group of statisticians from CTDS, Northwestern University and the University of Texas have released a paper (pdf, 2.5MB) investigating the predictive performance of the model developed by Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME). The IHME model is is used to predict ventilator use, hospital bed requirements and other resourcing for US states response to COVID-19.

      The key findings are:

      • Over 70 percent of US states had death rates that were inconsistent with IHME predictions

      • Ability of IHME model to make accurate predictions decreases with increasing amount of data

      • Improved predictive modelling needed for adequate provision of ventilators, PPE, medical staff at a local level

      PDF here: https://www.sydney.edu.au/content/dam/corporate/documents/centre-for-translational-data-sience/statistical_accuracy_covid19_predictions_ihme_model.pdf

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by George K
        #13

        More problems with the model

        A widely followed model for projecting Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. is producing results that have been bouncing up and down like an unpredictable fever, and now epidemiologists are criticizing it as flawed and misleading for both the public and policy makers. In particular, they warn against relying on it as the basis for government decision-making, including on “re-opening America.”

        “It’s not a model that most of us in the infectious disease epidemiology field think is well suited” to projecting Covid-19 deaths, epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health told reporters this week, referring to projections by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

        Others experts, including some colleagues of the model-makers, are even harsher. “That the IHME model keeps changing is evidence of its lack of reliability as a predictive tool,” said epidemiologist Ruth Etzioni of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, home to several of the researchers who created the model, and who has served on a search committee for IHME. “That it is being used for policy decisions and its results interpreted wrongly is a travesty unfolding before our eyes.”

        The IHME projections were used by the Trump administration in developing national guidelines to mitigate the outbreak. Now, they are reportedly influencing White House thinking on how and when to “re-open” the country, as President Trump announced a blueprint for on Thursday.

        The chief reason the IHME projections worry some experts, Etzioni said, is that “the fact that they overshot” — initially projecting up to 240,000 U.S. deaths, compared with fewer than 70,000 now — “will be used to suggest that the government response prevented an even greater catastrophe, when in fact the predictions were shaky in the first place.”

        That could produce misplaced confidence in the effectiveness of the social distancing policies, which in turn could produce complacency about what might be needed to keep the epidemic from blowing up again.

        Believing, for instance, that measures well short of what China imposed in and around Wuhan prevented a four-fold higher death toll could be disastrous.

        The most notable bounces in the IHME projections have been for the eventual total of U.S. deaths by early August, which is when many epidemiologists believe the outbreak will be tailing off. (Many expect daily deaths in the U.S. to fall to 10 or fewer by early June, from 2,000 or so in April.) Death projections for individual states have also fluctuated significantly.

        More interesting stuff later in the article.

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        L 1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          More problems with the model

          A widely followed model for projecting Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. is producing results that have been bouncing up and down like an unpredictable fever, and now epidemiologists are criticizing it as flawed and misleading for both the public and policy makers. In particular, they warn against relying on it as the basis for government decision-making, including on “re-opening America.”

          “It’s not a model that most of us in the infectious disease epidemiology field think is well suited” to projecting Covid-19 deaths, epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health told reporters this week, referring to projections by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

          Others experts, including some colleagues of the model-makers, are even harsher. “That the IHME model keeps changing is evidence of its lack of reliability as a predictive tool,” said epidemiologist Ruth Etzioni of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center, home to several of the researchers who created the model, and who has served on a search committee for IHME. “That it is being used for policy decisions and its results interpreted wrongly is a travesty unfolding before our eyes.”

          The IHME projections were used by the Trump administration in developing national guidelines to mitigate the outbreak. Now, they are reportedly influencing White House thinking on how and when to “re-open” the country, as President Trump announced a blueprint for on Thursday.

          The chief reason the IHME projections worry some experts, Etzioni said, is that “the fact that they overshot” — initially projecting up to 240,000 U.S. deaths, compared with fewer than 70,000 now — “will be used to suggest that the government response prevented an even greater catastrophe, when in fact the predictions were shaky in the first place.”

          That could produce misplaced confidence in the effectiveness of the social distancing policies, which in turn could produce complacency about what might be needed to keep the epidemic from blowing up again.

          Believing, for instance, that measures well short of what China imposed in and around Wuhan prevented a four-fold higher death toll could be disastrous.

          The most notable bounces in the IHME projections have been for the eventual total of U.S. deaths by early August, which is when many epidemiologists believe the outbreak will be tailing off. (Many expect daily deaths in the U.S. to fall to 10 or fewer by early June, from 2,000 or so in April.) Death projections for individual states have also fluctuated significantly.

          More interesting stuff later in the article.

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Loki
          wrote on last edited by
          #14

          No update since April 13. They said they would update on April 15. Curious.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins DadL Offline
            LuFins Dad
            wrote on last edited by
            #15

            Please, it's not like the model was so bad that college dropout piano pimps were pointing out flaws... Oh, wait..

            The Brad

            1 Reply Last reply
            • L Offline
              L Offline
              Loki
              wrote on last edited by
              #16

              IHME has been updated.

              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
              • L Loki

                IHME has been updated.

                George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #17

                @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                IHME has been updated.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                L 1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG George K

                  @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                  IHME has been updated.

                  L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Loki
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #18

                  @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                  @Loki said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                  IHME has been updated.

                  Florida should not be ignored just because it is inconvenient politically. Who cares if the GOP was “asleep the wheel” and didn’t apply the social distancing as coronavirus as spreading rapidly.There is real information in a different result that we can learn from.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #19

                    IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #20

                      I think we’ll only see that low a number if there’s significant seasonality in transmission.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #21

                        @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                        IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                        We'll hit that number in May.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        George KG jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                          IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                          We'll hit that number in May.

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #22

                          @jon-nyc yup.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Away
                            MikM Away
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #23

                            Models are just that models, based on assumptions that may or may not be correct. And in this case we are flying very, very blind.

                            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #24

                              Updated again. 135K...

                              https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-americaScreen Shot 2020-05-05 at 8.01.30 PM.png

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 Offline
                                89th8 Offline
                                89th
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #25

                                Brings it back to the 100-250k range

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                  We'll hit that number in May.

                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #26

                                  @jon-nyc said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                  IHME is now predicting 74K deaths by Aug 4.

                                  We'll hit that number in May.

                                  May 7th, to be exact.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG George K

                                    Updated again. 135K...

                                    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-americaScreen Shot 2020-05-05 at 8.01.30 PM.png

                                    George KG Offline
                                    George KG Offline
                                    George K
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #27

                                    @George-K said in Issues with the IHME model.:

                                    Updated again. 147K...

                                    https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

                                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #28

                                      I suspect we’ll hit that by the first week of June.

                                      Unless seasonality saves us.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
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