Vaccinating kids.
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:14 last edited by
Our family doc won’t give the flu shots to kids unless asked and prodded by the parents. On the other hand, he will pester the hell out of anybody over 24 to get the shot.
He thinks it’s good for the kid’s immune system to learn to fight the virus naturally. I wonder where he’ll fall on this vaccine?
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Our family doc won’t give the flu shots to kids unless asked and prodded by the parents. On the other hand, he will pester the hell out of anybody over 24 to get the shot.
He thinks it’s good for the kid’s immune system to learn to fight the virus naturally. I wonder where he’ll fall on this vaccine?
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:18 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Vaccinating kids.:
Our family doc won’t give the flu shots to kids unless asked and prodded by the parents. On the other hand, he will pester the hell out of anybody over 24 to get the shot.
He thinks it’s good for the kid’s immune system to learn to fight the virus naturally. I wonder where he’ll fall on this vaccine?
We're talking to our pediatrician next month about this, seeing what she thinks. But because COVID didn't exist three years ago, we're going to weigh the pediatrician's advice against what we can find on our own regarding the pros and cons and try to go from there. Right now our chances of getting our daughter vaccinated is too vague to tell, so 50/50.
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:21 last edited by
Can kids spread COVID 19? Absolutely, but study after study has shown they spread it at a vastly lower rate than adults do, which is why our schools aren’t raging hellholes of COVID…
What I would like to see (and we never will in this country) is a comparison between vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children. Who spreads more? My guess is vaccinated adults…
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Can kids spread COVID 19? Absolutely, but study after study has shown they spread it at a vastly lower rate than adults do, which is why our schools aren’t raging hellholes of COVID…
What I would like to see (and we never will in this country) is a comparison between vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children. Who spreads more? My guess is vaccinated adults…
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:22 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Vaccinating kids.:
What I would like to see (and we never will in this country) is a comparison between vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children. Who spreads more? My guess is vaccinated adults…
You mean the subset of both who get infected, right?
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@lufins-dad said in Vaccinating kids.:
What I would like to see (and we never will in this country) is a comparison between vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children. Who spreads more? My guess is vaccinated adults…
You mean the subset of both who get infected, right?
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:25 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@lufins-dad said in Vaccinating kids.:
What I would like to see (and we never will in this country) is a comparison between vaccinated adults and unvaccinated children. Who spreads more? My guess is vaccinated adults…
You mean the subset of both who get infected, right?
Yes, which means a somewhat accurate measurement of how many are infected, and considering the CDC is not tracking breakthroughs unless they pass a significant threshold of symptoms (read hospital visit) then that is impossible.
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@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
For a disease that is rarely lethal to children, why are we vaccinating?
That's the same argument Jim Carey superfans use to not vaccinate their kids against the measles. Literally the exact same.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 14:54 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
For a disease that is rarely lethal to children, why are we vaccinating?
That's the same argument Jim Carey superfans use to not vaccinate their kids against the measles. Literally the exact same.
Big difference. Measles can be fairly lethal.
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 15:14 last edited by
I figured most kids got the flu shot. Anyway, ours do (1 and 3) and I've started getting it every year (I used to be hit or miss) ever since my FIL had a bad sickness that has made him relatively high risk if he gets badly ill.
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@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
For a disease that is rarely lethal to children, why are we vaccinating?
That's the same argument Jim Carey superfans use to not vaccinate their kids against the measles. Literally the exact same.
Big difference. Measles can be fairly lethal.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 15:55 last edited by@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
For a disease that is rarely lethal to children, why are we vaccinating?
That's the same argument Jim Carey superfans use to not vaccinate their kids against the measles. Literally the exact same.
Big difference. Measles can be fairly lethal.
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease, then your whole point becomes meaningless. The only relevant question is whether or not that's actually true.
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 16:43 last edited by
just some thoughts on this.
we vaccinate children today for rubella for only one reason. rubella is very mild in children, the reason we vaccinate for rubella is to keep the prevalence of the virus low to protect pregnant woman from possibly getting infected and causing birth defects.
the risk of OPV (oral polio vaccine) causing paralysis, from the small chance that an attenuated virus becomes virulent is about 1.6 per million, but when there are outbreaks of polio now and then, OPV is given without hesitation to all children, again to keep the prevalence of the virus almost non existant.
so the idea of vaccinating children to protect society is not new at all.
as usual, this pandemic erupted when society has become polarized, so comparison to previous epidemics is useless.
society has been dumbed down considerably over the past few years.
having said all that, Israel will probably mass vaccinate children starting mid november, about two weeks from now. The main reason-lower viral prevalence will protect all of society.
not a new concept. just keeping public health as it has been and should be. -
@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@jolly said in Vaccinating kids.:
For a disease that is rarely lethal to children, why are we vaccinating?
That's the same argument Jim Carey superfans use to not vaccinate their kids against the measles. Literally the exact same.
Big difference. Measles can be fairly lethal.
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease, then your whole point becomes meaningless. The only relevant question is whether or not that's actually true.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 17:42 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease
Without any research to back me up I'd say the benefit of daily exercise > the benefit of the vaccine
Why not mandate daily exercise?
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@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease
Without any research to back me up I'd say the benefit of daily exercise > the benefit of the vaccine
Why not mandate daily exercise?
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 17:43 last edited by@copper said in Vaccinating kids.:
@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease
Without any research to back me up I'd say the benefit of daily exercise > the benefit of the vaccine
Why not mandate daily exercise?
And not eating McDonalds
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@copper said in Vaccinating kids.:
@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease
Without any research to back me up I'd say the benefit of daily exercise > the benefit of the vaccine
Why not mandate daily exercise?
And not eating McDonalds
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 17:52 last edited by@@copper said in Vaccinating kids.:
Why not mandate daily exercise?
Because you literally started that thought by saying you have no evidence whatsoever.
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@@copper said in Vaccinating kids.:
Why not mandate daily exercise?
Because you literally started that thought by saying you have no evidence whatsoever.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 18:35 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Vaccinating kids.:
@@copper said in Vaccinating kids.:
Why not mandate daily exercise?
Because you literally started that thought by saying you have no evidence whatsoever.
The same as
If the risk of the vaccination < the risk from the disease
But a little clearer
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 18:44 last edited by
@copper risk of vaccine is less than risk of infection
Here is the data
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just some thoughts on this.
we vaccinate children today for rubella for only one reason. rubella is very mild in children, the reason we vaccinate for rubella is to keep the prevalence of the virus low to protect pregnant woman from possibly getting infected and causing birth defects.
the risk of OPV (oral polio vaccine) causing paralysis, from the small chance that an attenuated virus becomes virulent is about 1.6 per million, but when there are outbreaks of polio now and then, OPV is given without hesitation to all children, again to keep the prevalence of the virus almost non existant.
so the idea of vaccinating children to protect society is not new at all.
as usual, this pandemic erupted when society has become polarized, so comparison to previous epidemics is useless.
society has been dumbed down considerably over the past few years.
having said all that, Israel will probably mass vaccinate children starting mid november, about two weeks from now. The main reason-lower viral prevalence will protect all of society.
not a new concept. just keeping public health as it has been and should be.wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 18:55 last edited by@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
... Israel will probably mass vaccinate children ...
Whoa, careful there! That sounds so socialistic that @Jolly and @LuFins-Dad might start calling for the USA to stop giving foreign aid to Israel.
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@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
... Israel will probably mass vaccinate children ...
Whoa, careful there! That sounds so socialistic that @Jolly and @LuFins-Dad might start calling for the USA to stop giving foreign aid to Israel.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 19:18 last edited by@axtremus said in Vaccinating kids.:
@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
... Israel will probably mass vaccinate children ...
Whoa, careful there! That sounds so socialistic that @Jolly and @LuFins-Dad might start calling for the USA to stop giving foreign aid to Israel.
Not at all. Once we have adequate evidence to support the safety and efficacy then I fully support beginning voluntary vaccination of younger children, and I suspect that it will be a mass vaccination effort.
You seem to think Jolly and I are anti-vaccine. We’re not.
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@axtremus said in Vaccinating kids.:
@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
... Israel will probably mass vaccinate children ...
Whoa, careful there! That sounds so socialistic that @Jolly and @LuFins-Dad might start calling for the USA to stop giving foreign aid to Israel.
Not at all. Once we have adequate evidence to support the safety and efficacy then I fully support beginning voluntary vaccination of younger children, and I suspect that it will be a mass vaccination effort.
You seem to think Jolly and I are anti-vaccine. We’re not.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 19:26 last edited by@lufins-dad actually I was answering copper
And I have no clue whatsoever of jolly’s or your vaccine opinions.
I was just saying that there is clear evidence in a large population cohort that covid infection is scarier than getting a vaccination.
As for me personally, I was terrified of covid when it appeared on the scene. I’ve seen too many people with tubes down their throat.
I jumped on the vaccine the first day it was available.
But that’s me. A chicken.
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wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 19:44 last edited by
What do I know? I just run the tests..
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@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
... Israel will probably mass vaccinate children ...
Whoa, careful there! That sounds so socialistic that @Jolly and @LuFins-Dad might start calling for the USA to stop giving foreign aid to Israel.
wrote on 27 Oct 2021, 21:01 last edited byThis post is deleted! -
wrote on 28 Oct 2021, 15:17 last edited by
@bachophile said in Vaccinating kids.:
just some thoughts on this.
we vaccinate children today for rubella for only one reason. rubella is very mild in children, the reason we vaccinate for rubella is to keep the prevalence of the virus low to protect pregnant woman from possibly getting infected and causing birth defects.
the risk of OPV (oral polio vaccine) causing paralysis, from the small chance that an attenuated virus becomes virulent is about 1.6 per million, but when there are outbreaks of polio now and then, OPV is given without hesitation to all children, again to keep the prevalence of the virus almost non existant.
so the idea of vaccinating children to protect society is not new at all.
as usual, this pandemic erupted when society has become polarized, so comparison to previous epidemics is useless.
society has been dumbed down considerably over the past few years.
having said all that, Israel will probably mass vaccinate children starting mid november, about two weeks from now. The main reason-lower viral prevalence will protect all of society.
not a new concept. just keeping public health as it has been and should be.Rubella is an interesting case, and I think the biggest guiding force for vaccination is the risk of birth defects to and damage to the unborn. I think there is a built in need to protect the unborn in each of us. It’s probably an instinct for species preservation.
Polio? I’m not sure Polio is a good comparison, either. First of all, the CFR of Polio is orders of magnitude higher. What is it? 3% in kids and 30% in adults? Now it is not nearly as infectious
as COVID. COVID’s single deadliest aspect is how highly contagious it is. It’s a numbers game… But it still is highly contagious and should you contract it the results are going to be much more likely to be dire. Plus, while you can get natural immunity to the one virus from infection, you don’t get immunity to the other two. Like none… Whereas COVID Natural Immunity does seem to offer better protection not just to that strain, but it seems to offer it to variants SO FAR…There’s something tickling the back of my mind and unfortunately I don’t have the education or wits to really express it let alone evaluate it, but I wonder if by giving these kids the vaccine, we aren’t ultimately slowing their ability to develop a better and more lasting natural immunity to the virus, making them more susceptible to the disease variants as they enter young adulthood and beyond for the sake of protecting adults today. That would be more understandable to me if we didn’t already have vaccines that greatly reduce the risk for these adults?