Pardonpalooza

[xenon]

I get all the theoretical arguments for using pardons as a pressure valve on errors made by the judiciary.

The theory is nice - but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.

Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.

[George K]

@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:

Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.

That would require a Constitutional amendment.

Not gonna happen.

[xenon]

@george-k said in Pardonpalooza:

@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:

Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.

That would require a Constitutional amendment.

Not gonna happen.

It seems like the bottleneck is that a sitting President has to ask for a curb to his power. Some of his party would fall in line, and the opposition would almost certainly oblige.

[jon-nyc]

@george-k , @Loki

Right but Menendez doesn’t have pardon power or influence over Trump.

This one was probably just purchased. Unless there’s some connection via West Palm

[jon-nyc]

@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:

but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.

I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.

[xenon]

@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:

@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:

but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.

I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.

My comment wasn't in the spirit of Trump - I'm reading his pardons as par-for-the-course (even with the handful of really gross ones in there).

I don't expect the vetoes (or whatever mechanism) to be used, unless it's a truly abusive pardon. And that in and of itself should hopefully curb those type.

[Copper]

No way

The dems wouldn't let even one Trump pardon pass.

They would say "truly abusive" all day long.

And vice versa.

No way.

[Loki]

@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:

@george-k , @Loki

Right but Menendez doesn’t have pardon power or influence over Trump.

This one was probably just purchased. Unless there’s some connection via West Palm

Perhaps his letter on how wonderful he is had no impact but it exists and it’s a good place to start looking for why. Could be a dead end but Mendendez has a habit of being misunderstood. Lol

[George K]

@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:

I don't expect the vetoes (or whatever mechanism) to be used, unless it's a truly abusive pardon. And that in and of itself should hopefully curb those type.

The President's power to pardon is constitutionally guaranteed. It is plenary, and without an amendment (and that's one high bar), irrevocable.

[Rainman]

Wouldn't it be fun if Trump were to have pardoned everybody. Open the jailhouse doors. Kinda like a "Reset" or something. "You're all free to go!" And then encourage those released on where they should go.

We start over.

Another of my great ideas ignored. Oh well.

[Jolly]

@catseye3 said in Pardonpalooza:

@horace said in Pardonpalooza:

Lots of destruction of the republic going around.

I didn't post Mason's argument to support any position of mine, but because I thought it was interesting in its own right.

I don't know enough about the prez pardon to have a position.

Educate thyself.

[Catseye3]

@rainman said in Pardonpalooza:

Another of my great ideas ignored. Oh well.

But keep on keepin' on, Rainman! One of them is bound to capture the imagination of we us the people.

[Doctor Phibes]

@rainman said in Pardonpalooza:

And then encourage those released on where they should go.

Palm Beach, FL?

[jon-nyc]

I’m sure the guys that were arrested with Bannon are pretty jealous right now. They did the same thing, and they weren’t pardoned, after all.

But I wonder if it has occurred to them that they’re extra fucked now? Bannon can’t plead 5th amendment protection from self-incrimination so he can be compelled to testify against his co-conspirators. And if he lies that’s a new federal crime not covered by the pardon.

[Loki]

@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:

I’m sure the guys that were arrested with Bannon are pretty jealous right now. They did the same thing, and they weren’t pardoned, after all.

But I wonder if it has occurred to them that they’re extra fucked now? Bannon can’t plead 5th amendment protection from self-incrimination so he can be compelled to testify against his co-conspirators. And if he lies that’s a new federal crime not covered by the pardon.

I guess the reality is you have a weird case or two which is a high contrast to what an imagined pardonpalooza would have looked like.

[jon-nyc]

Did you read the McCarthy piece?

[Catseye3]

@loki said in Pardonpalooza:

And if he lies that’s a new federal crime not covered by the pardon.

Might not be so bad. If he gets jugged, he could get tips from Martha Stewart on Houseplants That Don't Need Sunlight and Twelve Uses for Leftover Hockey Puck Hamburgers.

[Loki]

@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:

Did you read the McCarthy piece?

I did. I’ve seen so many shady people get pardoned in my life that it was hard to be moved. What I will most likely remember of all is that fractional numbers of people got pardoned vs what was predicted. I believed the predictions myself but it turned out to be off base. Not for him, not for his family and then they made us read that Capitol protesters could get pardoned.

Not blaming anyone just noting it was largely miscast.

[jon-nyc]

Seems like if you had read the McCarthy piece you’d know it wasn’t one or two suspect pardons.

[taiwan_girl]

Without any study, it seems to me that President Trump did pardons that were pretty similar to pretty much all other presidents recently. Some a lot of people agreed with, and there is always one or two or three where people scratch their head