Pardonpalooza
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My least favorite modern pardon isn’t even on your list, it was Obama pardoning the unrepentant Puerto Rican terrorist.
@jon-nyc I don't know why that list got renumbered (@Klaus ), but it's #17:
Clinton in 1999 outraged members of both parties when he offered prison commutations to 16 members of the Puerto Rican terrorist organization FALN, which set off more than 100 bombs in the 1970s and ’80s, killing six.
Clinton said the FALN members were serving disproportionately tough sentences and that those offered clemency “were not convicted of crimes involving the killing or maiming of any individuals.”
Many bombings hit New York, and Clinton’s wife, Hillary Clinton, then running for the Senate in New York, said she opposed the action. The Senate voted 95-2 to oppose the clemency and the House voted 311-41. But because the presidential pardon power is absolute, the votes could not reverse the action.
Years later, President Barack Obama released another FALN member, Oscar Lopez Rivera, who had refused to accept Clinton’s clemency offer, which required the separatists to renounce violence, because it didn’t free all members of the group.
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This one is kind of gross.
Dr. Salomon E. Melgen, 66, a major Democratic donor and eye doctor who ran a series of clinics in Florida that fraudulently told Medicare patients that they had eye diseases and then performed medically unnecessary tests and procedures, falsely billing the federal government at least $42 million, according to prosecutors. His remaining prison sentence was commuted.
He was the largest Medicare fraudster in history, performed unnecessary procedures on senior citizens and is still serving a sentence.
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This one is kind of gross.
Dr. Salomon E. Melgen, 66, a major Democratic donor and eye doctor who ran a series of clinics in Florida that fraudulently told Medicare patients that they had eye diseases and then performed medically unnecessary tests and procedures, falsely billing the federal government at least $42 million, according to prosecutors. His remaining prison sentence was commuted.
He was the largest Medicare fraudster in history, performed unnecessary procedures on senior citizens and is still serving a sentence.
@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:
This one is kind of gross.
Dr. Salomon E. Melgen, 66, a major Democratic donor and eye doctor who ran a series of clinics in Florida that fraudulently told Medicare patients that they had eye diseases and then performed medically unnecessary tests and procedures, falsely billing the federal government at least $42 million, according to prosecutors. His remaining prison sentence was commuted.
He was the largest Medicare fraudster in history, performed unnecessary procedures on senior citizens and is still serving a sentence.
Yuck but a deep dive into this one is going to involve Sen. Bob Melendez.
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@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:
This one is kind of gross.
Dr. Salomon E. Melgen, 66, a major Democratic donor and eye doctor who ran a series of clinics in Florida that fraudulently told Medicare patients that they had eye diseases and then performed medically unnecessary tests and procedures, falsely billing the federal government at least $42 million, according to prosecutors. His remaining prison sentence was commuted.
He was the largest Medicare fraudster in history, performed unnecessary procedures on senior citizens and is still serving a sentence.
Yuck but a deep dive into this one is going to involve Sen. Bob Melendez.
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I get all the theoretical arguments for using pardons as a pressure valve on errors made by the judiciary.
The theory is nice - but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.
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I get all the theoretical arguments for using pardons as a pressure valve on errors made by the judiciary.
The theory is nice - but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.
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@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.
That would require a Constitutional amendment.
Not gonna happen.
@george-k said in Pardonpalooza:
@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.
That would require a Constitutional amendment.
Not gonna happen.
It seems like the bottleneck is that a sitting President has to ask for a curb to his power. Some of his party would fall in line, and the opposition would almost certainly oblige.
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I get all the theoretical arguments for using pardons as a pressure valve on errors made by the judiciary.
The theory is nice - but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
Maybe there should be some sort of veto against these... e.g., if all SC justices say no or something.. something.
@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.
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@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.
@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:
@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.
My comment wasn't in the spirit of Trump - I'm reading his pardons as par-for-the-course (even with the handful of really gross ones in there).
I don't expect the vetoes (or whatever mechanism) to be used, unless it's a truly abusive pardon. And that in and of itself should hopefully curb those type.
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@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:
Right but Menendez doesn’t have pardon power or influence over Trump.
This one was probably just purchased. Unless there’s some connection via West Palm
Perhaps his letter on how wonderful he is had no impact but it exists and it’s a good place to start looking for why. Could be a dead end but Mendendez has a habit of being misunderstood. Lol
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@jon-nyc said in Pardonpalooza:
@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
but it seems like these disproportionately go to folks high-profile enough to get the ear of the President.
I’m not sure if that’s generally true or just true for Trump and/or true for just the cases that make the news.
My comment wasn't in the spirit of Trump - I'm reading his pardons as par-for-the-course (even with the handful of really gross ones in there).
I don't expect the vetoes (or whatever mechanism) to be used, unless it's a truly abusive pardon. And that in and of itself should hopefully curb those type.
@xenon said in Pardonpalooza:
I don't expect the vetoes (or whatever mechanism) to be used, unless it's a truly abusive pardon. And that in and of itself should hopefully curb those type.
The President's power to pardon is constitutionally guaranteed. It is plenary, and without an amendment (and that's one high bar), irrevocable.
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Wouldn't it be fun if Trump were to have pardoned everybody. Open the jailhouse doors. Kinda like a "Reset" or something. "You're all free to go!" And then encourage those released on where they should go.
We start over.
Another of my great ideas ignored. Oh well.
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@horace said in Pardonpalooza:
Lots of destruction of the republic going around.
I didn't post Mason's argument to support any position of mine, but because I thought it was interesting in its own right.
I don't know enough about the prez pardon to have a position.
@catseye3 said in Pardonpalooza:
@horace said in Pardonpalooza:
Lots of destruction of the republic going around.
I didn't post Mason's argument to support any position of mine, but because I thought it was interesting in its own right.
I don't know enough about the prez pardon to have a position.
Educate thyself.
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Wouldn't it be fun if Trump were to have pardoned everybody. Open the jailhouse doors. Kinda like a "Reset" or something. "You're all free to go!" And then encourage those released on where they should go.
We start over.
Another of my great ideas ignored. Oh well.
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Wouldn't it be fun if Trump were to have pardoned everybody. Open the jailhouse doors. Kinda like a "Reset" or something. "You're all free to go!" And then encourage those released on where they should go.
We start over.
Another of my great ideas ignored. Oh well.
@rainman said in Pardonpalooza:
And then encourage those released on where they should go.
Palm Beach, FL?
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I’m sure the guys that were arrested with Bannon are pretty jealous right now. They did the same thing, and they weren’t pardoned, after all.
But I wonder if it has occurred to them that they’re extra fucked now? Bannon can’t plead 5th amendment protection from self-incrimination so he can be compelled to testify against his co-conspirators. And if he lies that’s a new federal crime not covered by the pardon.
