Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar
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@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
The left is only too happy to attempt to oblige.
And the politicians supporting the left have been silent on the destruction, violence, looking until polls demonstrated that it's the wrong position because it might hurt their prospects.
<insert Forest Gump "And just like that...." meme here>
Talk about "awokening," LOL.
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You reap what you sow.
Since the 2000 election, the country has been headed towards the abyss. The Left is magnitudes worse than the right, although both have their share of nuts. It just seems the Leftist nuts are becoming more mainstream for their political persuasion.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
The Left is magnitudes worse than the right, although both have their share of nuts.
Again, I ask: Point me to the mayhem, riots, destruction, personal attacks, and intimidation that the right has encouraged and performed in the last 4 months.
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It's understandable that having enthusiastically participated in the tribal response that is largely to blame for the mayhem, you would find the blame game tiresome, and prefer to engage in a more zoomed out academic discussion of the proceedings. But if you would like to expound on your thoughts re: the Weimar comparison, you are welcome to.
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
I should have quoted a smaller segment. I was thinking we’d have the new-to-us conversation about the Weimar comparison, not the age old conversation about blame.
The problem is that Sullivan equates the positions of the new left with the extreme right, when that's a false equivalence.
As TuCa said, about 10 minutes ago, "When is the last time a bunch of Trump supporters looted a Target, attacked you at a restaurant, or torched a police station."
Once you can answer that question, we can talk about Weimar comparisons and the tribes. If you can't then it's a false equivalence at best, and a bald-faced lie at worst.
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Here's jon next door:
Politically, at least, I post on broadly the same two themes in both forums. One is something like 'Trumpism is a danger to the republic and must be stopped' and the other is something like 'The post-liberal left is a danger to the republic and must be stopped'. In each forum everyone seems to like one or the other topic, only a tiny handful seem genuinely sympathetic to both.
Since he's slipped into princess jon mode in this thread, that is probably the most we'll get from him regarding his opinion that yes, the left and right are equally bad right now.
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What I don’t understand is why you didn’t lose your need for my approval when you made your transition. Seems like you need to learn to manage your resentment if we’re ever going to find an equilibrium. Which I hope at some point we’re able to do.
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To the Weimar point, I don’t know that one needs to express a strong point of view on relative worth of the tribes in order to appreciate the comparison. Seems like you could separate the implications from the blame at least temporarily, as an intellectual exercise at least.
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Not when your starting position is the current administration as an 'extinction level event' for the republic. If Sullivan would like to forego playing the blame game perhaps others might be more amenable to entertaining the idea. But I won't hold my breath.
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
What I don’t understand is why you didn’t lose your need for my approval when you made your transition. Seems like you need to learn to manage your resentment if we’re ever going to find an equilibrium. Which I hope at some point we’re able to do.
Magnanimous, unfairly put upon but still willing to compromise, princess jon.
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
To the Weimar point, I don’t know that one needs to express a strong point of view on relative worth of the tribes in order to appreciate the comparison. Seems like you could separate the implications from the blame at least temporarily, as an intellectual exercise at least.
You're still free to make something interesting of the Weimar comparison. You've spent more words lamenting that nobody else is doing so, than doing so yourself. Unless the real point is to prance around about how the discussion isn't high enough level for your tastes.
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@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
What I don’t understand is why you didn’t lose your need for my approval when you made your transition. Seems like you need to learn to manage your resentment if we’re ever going to find an equilibrium. Which I hope at some point we’re able to do.
Magnanimous, unfairly put upon but still willing to compromise, princess jon.
I get that you have to tell me to fuck off after posting something like that, and you will again after this post, but maybe give it some thought offline?
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In the last paragraph, Sullivan states, "He remains the only choice in this election."
Everything else if a veiled attempt to justify why "He remains the only choice in this election."
But he is a good mind reader. Much better than me. It would be so much fun to float through the post-structuralist haze of subjective facts, with the main point being what I quoted.
Since I can't mindread, I listen carefully to what the rioters and protesters say at 3:00 am, what I overhear them talk about on YouTube live-stream videos (before YouTube cut them all, and I mean all, so nothing much live after 1:00 am). The protesters and rioters are, in my assessment, quite braindead. The protesters have NOTHING of substance to say or comment upon (they're mostly kids that maybe thought "critical thinking" in high school meant scream loudest), however they are well trained to provide the antiphonal responses to the chant leaders, i.e., the cantor with the megaphone. The rioters are losers with a cause, whether it's a new TV or destroying anything they know deep down they could never create or build.
Based upon my late-night research and other stuff over the course of time, I really have to disagree with his devotion to "He remains the only choice in this election." He may be surprised that his readers think for themselves and laugh at his stupid loftiness.
Regarding Weimar and what little I know, Sullivan can sit in the wheelbarrow of useless cash and have his most thoughtful readers push him off a cliff. They could even slap a Biden/Harris bumper sticker on it before the heave-ho.
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It’s always something.
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@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
Biden is a pale comparison to Weimar’s Hindenburg, but then again Trump is farce to the tragedy of Hitler.
Maybe Spain in the 30s is an interesting comparison to think through.
Good idea. I just spent 3 seconds covering everything I know about Spain in the 30's. Why don't you bring me (us) up to your level, so the obscure becomes obvious?
I could type "Spain" into Google. But somehow I don't think that will bring me the erudition you require in assumed great depth of knowledge you'd like discourse in. Sorry, trying to sound intelligent, I'm not good at it. And sorry for the preposition, but Aqua said it's OK.
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@Rainman said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:
In the last paragraph, Sullivan states, "He remains the only choice in this election."
Everything else if a veiled attempt to justify why "He remains the only choice in this election."
But he is a good mind reader. Much better than me. It would be so much fun to float through the post-structuralist haze of subjective facts, with the main point being what I quoted.
Since I can't mindread, I listen carefully to what the rioters and protesters say at 3:00 am, what I overhear them talk about on YouTube live-stream videos (before YouTube cut them all, and I mean all, so nothing much live after 1:00 am). The protesters and rioters are, in my assessment, quite braindead. The protesters have NOTHING of substance to say or comment upon (they're mostly kids that maybe thought "critical thinking" in high school meant scream loudest), however they are well trained to provide the antiphonal responses to the chant leaders, i.e., the cantor with the megaphone. The rioters are losers with a cause, whether it's a new TV or destroying anything they know deep down they could never create or build.
Based upon my late-night research and other stuff over the course of time, I really have to disagree with his devotion to "He remains the only choice in this election." He may be surprised that his readers think for themselves and laugh at his stupid loftiness.
Regarding Weimar and what little I know, Sullivan can sit in the wheelbarrow of useless cash and have his most thoughtful readers push him off a cliff. They could even slap a Biden/Harris bumper sticker on it before the heave-ho.
There was a de facto leader of Chaz who clearly had MLK envy. It was embarrassing listening to her attempt to soapbox. There are no interesting ideas behind these riots. Collin Kaepernik does not have a single interesting idea in his head. And what's more nobody expects him to. This is all cheap and very effective manipulation of mob outrage, by the left-leaning media and politicians.
As far as Trumpism goes and the non-starter voting for him is, there is nothing there, either. The best TDS folks are able to do lately is to point to the riots and say "this is Trump's America". Even jon buys into that tribal mantra. As ideas go, it is not a rational one.
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I for one agree with most of what Sullivan says.
The "extinction level event for liberal democracy" thing is a little extreme terminology-wise, but Trump has by now made it abundantly clear that he doesn't give a fuck about liberal democracy and the like. Just recently he was talking about how he'd step down in 20 years and about how the only possible explanation if he looses would be that there must have been election fraud.
I also agree with his stance on the American left. A good analysis of how they went completely nuts in a time when they should have provided a credible alternative.
As for the comparison to Weimar, I don't think the comparison is absurd. It's a little disappointing that the reactions in this forum have mostly been along the predictable tribal lines. If we'll get a major economic crisis - and I think we will -, tensions will rise even more. The political climate that enabled the transition from Weimar to Hitler is similar. But there are also some major differences. The US has better constitutional protection against tyrants (an "Ermächtigungsgesetz" would be way harder, division of power is mostly intact). There is no "Dolchstosslegende" and no scape goat like the Jews. And the economic situation isn't as bad yet. But still, it's not an absurd comparison.
