Marriage advice
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Not much to add to what's being said - I agree very much that small steps are much less painful, and also that trying to 'fix' what you see as somebody else's problem like an engineer is not a good way to approach it - that's something that I've been guilty of, and still struggle with.
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions. Counselling can be quite a bit more helpful than you might imagine, but you both have to want to go.
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need. I got rid of an old stereo which was in full working order - they guy was made up that he was getting it for free, and I was made up to free up the space. Full disclosure - our house is a lot messier than we'd like it to be.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
@89th said in Marriage advice:
this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions.I do think you need to tell her the clutter is stressing you out, but you have to figure out how to do it without the judgement (I’m stressed by the clutter and it’s your fault). Based on your words above - I get extremely irritated when Steve occasionally comments on the amount of time I spend doing (whatever it is I’m doing to decompress) if I think he’s making a judgement comment on my choices and thinks I should be doing something else. With little kids you really do not feel like any of your time is your own. So even if you think she’s got time, she may not feel like it. Her idea of how much time she has may never match yours, and that may always cause you stress.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Marriage advice:
It's very easy to build up resentment, particularly if it feels as though you're doing more than 50% of the work, and both Mrs. Phibes and I have been guilty of that on a number of occasions.
It's weird, if you twisted my arm I'd say I do much more than 50% but truly and sincerely I don't mind. Someone once said marriage should be 60/40 where each partner should try to give the 60%, so that's how I view it. I'd do 100% as long as she's happy, that's what I care about. With this situation it's more about how to address a clutter issue that she creates and has plenty of time during the day to address if it weren't for the distractions. ChatGPT told me to address it more as "this clutter is making me stressed" vs "your clutter needs to be fixed". Baby steps....
In terms of reducing mess and clutter, we've found the Facebook Free Marketplace to be a great place for getting rid of things you don't really think you can sell, but that feel too good to just throw away - old toys, gadgets you don't need.
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
@89th said in Marriage advice:
Good idea, as long as you have a partner willing to part ways! I actually have a whole corner of our basement storage area of baby things (clothes, toys, gadgets, etc) that are absolutely ready to be given away once I get the nod of approval. Maybe I could be more of a dick about it, but ultimately it's not hurting anything sitting there and I know getting rid of baby stuff is more sentimental, too.
We've been carefully keeping quantities of paperwork from kindergarten and elementary school in boxes in the downstairs garage for reasons that aren't fully clear to me.
Apparently, mice love to recycle even more than we do, and made some of it into affordable housing.
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@89th - we're in a very similar situation. All caveats about how great a person and mom my wife is (all true), she has a consumption issue. I think it's much easier to have this issue than it has been in the past.
Our houses are bigger, we have Amazon, impulse buying has moved from the aisle to your bedroom.
Luckily our common living spaces are tidy, and she hates a messy kitchen. Outside of that (our bedroom, the playroom, kids bedrooms) - not so much.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
That's step 1, I guess. But changing habits is hard. We're on that step right now. She has to want to do it, as Jodi said you typically can't berate a person into doing that.
It doesn't help that I've become sort of a minimalist as I've gotten older. We're pretty far from each other on this topic.
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Yeah, it's funny how we have similar lives in many respects these days, age, house issues, kids, 1st world problems... When we got our kitchen counters redone a few months ago there was a period where she wanted nothing at all on the counters, which was refreshing. But that phase has moved on...
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Yeah, I can relate. While we don't have kids here anymore, Janet will sometimes get the urge to buy something she likes when we are in the position of shedding 32 years of accumulated stuff. My approach is everything that comes in must be offset by at LEAST one similar item that goes out. It's not that we're really cluttered, we just don't need all this stuff and it is an albatross around your life's neck.
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@89th - we're in a very similar situation. All caveats about how great a person and mom my wife is (all true), she has a consumption issue. I think it's much easier to have this issue than it has been in the past.
Our houses are bigger, we have Amazon, impulse buying has moved from the aisle to your bedroom.
Luckily our common living spaces are tidy, and she hates a messy kitchen. Outside of that (our bedroom, the playroom, kids bedrooms) - not so much.
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
That's step 1, I guess. But changing habits is hard. We're on that step right now. She has to want to do it, as Jodi said you typically can't berate a person into doing that.
It doesn't help that I've become sort of a minimalist as I've gotten older. We're pretty far from each other on this topic.
@xenon said in Marriage advice:
Lots of good advice in this thread, but change is hard. I've worked my wife to the point of recognizing that it's better if every item in the house has a specific place to live, and not only space for itself, but breathing space so that it can actually be found and used.
This is the key for me. I am a clear plastic storage box - label and categorize - and every shelf or set of shelves has an activity category - camping, auto, tools, paint supplies, etc. Stuff HAS to be in the area it goes in, otherwise I will never find it again. I think the organizing thing is probably related to an OCD (but also ADHD) thing in my personality. I tend to get everything out at once, work on multiple projects, and then I have a meltdown moment and spend a day getting everything tucked back into the assigned spots so I can start back in on the projects with less anxiety.
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Ugh. Happy wife, happy life… Keep chanting it…
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The bigger issue here is the disorganization and the clutter. Was her parent's home cluttered?
The Brad
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@89th .. Your kids’ areas look just as messy as ours did 25 yrs ago! I remember feeling relieved seeing similar homes, thinking this clutter must be a developmental stage of parenthood. And prior to being parents, we were very tidy and organized.
Lots of good wisdom shared from people here.
I won’t dive into my grown kid’s issues with ADHD, collecting, clutter, except to say, yup, very stressful. And yes indeed, clutter hurts relationships.
If I can offer anything to you @89th :
1). Try to chat up safety with your wife whenever possible. Especially with bathroom, laundry and kitchen areas. We had a kid and 3 cats climbing bookcases, counters, cupboards, appliances, squeezing into the weirdest spaces. My eyes couldn’t be everywhere all at once to intervene. Clutter on counters and in cupboards create real danger risks for fires, spills, tipovers, floods, electrical accidents, all that. As a pediatric nurse, I saw plenty. Please eliminate that clutter. Make firm safety rules for these areas. Safety is a real good reason for decluttering.
2). Do not succumb to renting storage lockers to relocate clutter.
3). Do not procrastinate long with decisions to sell or donate stuff. Procrastination compounds stress while clutter continues to build.
4) Keep tossing that toy crap out! Then expand covert maneuvers with other small stuff. Dirty little secrets. I love that. Continue and you’ll be miles ahead of others.
5) Of bigger household crap .. just ask someday. I’ve an entire repertoire of tips and strategies. A few dirty secrets too.
6) Of elders .. Are they a gift giving source of too many toys and kid stuff? Are they attempting to off-load heirlooms onto you yet? If so, can you and your wife agree to talk to them of it?
7) Also of elders .. avoid, if you can, being an executor or sucked in with their downsizing junk removal. It sucks so much from your soul, and especially your valuable time.
8. Remind yourself .. The kids’ clutter is different from my wife’s clutter. Yes, it’s all chaos. Yes, it’s all gross. But ask yourself who generates what clutter and why? Clean up kid made clutter sure. Have them see you do it & have them help you with it as they grow. Make no excuses for mom’s problem to anyone.
9) A safe room free of clutter, like your office, is a real good thing. Is it possible for your wife to have a safe room too? Even if her clutter migrates there? There are benefits for you not seeing her stuff. Think about it.
10) Don’t become like some parents who escape with booze to bitch alongside other parents. That’s not therapy. That’s just another problem.I hope some of this is helpful to you @89th.
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The bigger issue here is the disorganization and the clutter. Was her parent's home cluttered?
@LuFins-Dad said in Marriage advice:
The bigger issue here is the disorganization and the clutter. Was her parent's home cluttered?
No, and her mom has become a minimalist recently too. They talk daily, they share almost every personality, maybe that'll rub off on her. I know her mom has made comments about the clutter too. I think my wife knows, she is just overwhelmed and knowing her she can paralyze in the moment.
Heck, tomorrow morning she has to volunteer at a gymnastics meet, it's going to feel like -15 or so and she is concerned about parking, so she asked me to drive her (which involves me also bringing the 3 kids with at 7am), which I'm happy to do. Happy wife, happy life... but you're right, only to an extent. I would probably be more pleasant after work if I didn't walk into a tornado house each time, but I also don't want to ever go down the road of "needing to be a jerk for someone to be scared not to piss me off", that is unhealthy.
To continue thinking out loud, things did change a bit after our 2nd kid was born. Many more fights about really dumb illogical stuff, to the point where I avoid bringing up triggering topics any more. Wasn't like that before. I wonder if the clutter is a way to hide behind whatever changed, perhaps physiologically. The 3rd kid was just another layer on the cake. Day to day we are fine. I haven't checked out, I spend basically every waking hour supporting someone else (sometimes I'll watch a show from like 930-1030pm now), but when you can't inject logic into arguments, what other resort do you have? For example, why does each of our kids need 50-75 shirts shoved like sardines in each drawer? Same with PJs? You take one out and like a dozen will "pop" out of the drawer it's so inaccessible. So the logic would be "Honey... how many PJs do you think each kid needs before the next laundry cycle?" The answer btw is about 5-7, not 50. But if your partner refuses the logic and just says "I handle their laundry why do you care?" or "when will I have the time to pick out the 7 PJs?" what resort do I have? BTW I did tell her one time when she said that, that "If it were me I'd just pick the first 7 PJs I see and donate everything else."
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@89th .. Your kids’ areas look just as messy as ours did 25 yrs ago! I remember feeling relieved seeing similar homes, thinking this clutter must be a developmental stage of parenthood. And prior to being parents, we were very tidy and organized.
Lots of good wisdom shared from people here.
I won’t dive into my grown kid’s issues with ADHD, collecting, clutter, except to say, yup, very stressful. And yes indeed, clutter hurts relationships.
If I can offer anything to you @89th :
1). Try to chat up safety with your wife whenever possible. Especially with bathroom, laundry and kitchen areas. We had a kid and 3 cats climbing bookcases, counters, cupboards, appliances, squeezing into the weirdest spaces. My eyes couldn’t be everywhere all at once to intervene. Clutter on counters and in cupboards create real danger risks for fires, spills, tipovers, floods, electrical accidents, all that. As a pediatric nurse, I saw plenty. Please eliminate that clutter. Make firm safety rules for these areas. Safety is a real good reason for decluttering.
2). Do not succumb to renting storage lockers to relocate clutter.
3). Do not procrastinate long with decisions to sell or donate stuff. Procrastination compounds stress while clutter continues to build.
4) Keep tossing that toy crap out! Then expand covert maneuvers with other small stuff. Dirty little secrets. I love that. Continue and you’ll be miles ahead of others.
5) Of bigger household crap .. just ask someday. I’ve an entire repertoire of tips and strategies. A few dirty secrets too.
6) Of elders .. Are they a gift giving source of too many toys and kid stuff? Are they attempting to off-load heirlooms onto you yet? If so, can you and your wife agree to talk to them of it?
7) Also of elders .. avoid, if you can, being an executor or sucked in with their downsizing junk removal. It sucks so much from your soul, and especially your valuable time.
8. Remind yourself .. The kids’ clutter is different from my wife’s clutter. Yes, it’s all chaos. Yes, it’s all gross. But ask yourself who generates what clutter and why? Clean up kid made clutter sure. Have them see you do it & have them help you with it as they grow. Make no excuses for mom’s problem to anyone.
9) A safe room free of clutter, like your office, is a real good thing. Is it possible for your wife to have a safe room too? Even if her clutter migrates there? There are benefits for you not seeing her stuff. Think about it.
10) Don’t become like some parents who escape with booze to bitch alongside other parents. That’s not therapy. That’s just another problem.I hope some of this is helpful to you @89th.
@blondie Really great advice. Wish I could reply to all, but a few ones>
3: Procrastination. Not me, I'll donate something in a snap if I can. My dad is a bit of a hoarder, less with volume but more with dressers (plural) that he keeps in storage because they've been in the family forever. They've also been in musty storage basements for 40 years.
4-5: Dirty little secrets. Ha, I'll ask one day! The little cleanings I do are a thankless job. We'd have 300 happy meal toys all over if it weren't for my heroic efforts when folks are away, LOL.
6-7: Elders. No they aren't the source of the clutter at all. And very good point about not being their avenue to downsize as they minimalize things, too.
10: Booze. Yeah that was becoming a problem. Not in a "can't stop" (I could stop for weeks) way, but more of a way at night to numb out the stress of the normal day plus stuff on top, like clutter. As I slowly get back in shape, I've learned staying disciplined at night and not snacking/drinking is 2-3x better (caloric, even!) than a 30 minute jog!
