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The New Coffee Room

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  3. $425,000 per family

$425,000 per family

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote last edited by jon-nyc
    #1

    The national debt, in ten years, courtesy of Donald J. Trump.

    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
    -Cormac McCarthy

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      It's not as if there was any stopping that train regardless of one's vote.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        The dems were never going to extend the entirety of the TCJA, not to mention add all the gimmicky tax giveaways that Trump offered on a whim at various rallies.

        "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
        -Cormac McCarthy

        LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

          Education is extremely important.

          Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
          šŸ‘
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote last edited by jon-nyc
            #5

            We can't really know that, though all indications, including serious estimates from the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan before the election, had it substantially less.

            Oh, and but for Trump it wouldn't be estimated to be 425k per family in ten years. So yeah, that particular number is his. Which is not to say 'but for him it would be zero' (obviously).

            But he did just set the record for the largest debt increase of any economic plan in all of human history. And he owns that shit. And so do those of you who voted for him.

            "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
            -Cormac McCarthy

            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              We can't really know that, though all indications, including serious estimates from the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan before the election, had it substantially less.

              Oh, and but for Trump it wouldn't be estimated to be 425k per family in ten years. So yeah, that particular number is his. Which is not to say 'but for him it would be zero' (obviously).

              But he did just set the record for the largest debt increase of any economic plan in all of human history. And he owns that shit. And so do those of you who voted for him.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              No number. Sad. You could just ask ChatGPT, you don't have to break out the calculator or the tarot cards.

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                how much more is the deficit due to Trump's Big Beautiful Bill as compared to what we would have had with a Harris administration?


                Here’s the comparison based on the best available estimates:


                šŸ“Š Estimated 10‑Year Deficit Impact (2025–2035)

                Plan Added Deficit (FY26–35)
                Trump ā€œOne Big Beautiful Billā€ ~$3.3 trillion (CBO), possibly up to $4 trillion per Tax Foundation/Newsweek (theguardian.com, crfb.org, taxfoundation.org)
                Harris campaign proposals ~$7.65 trillion (CRFB central estimate), range $5.5–$9.9 trillion (crfb.org)

                āž• How Much More?

                • Under Trump’s bill, the budget would run an additional $3.3–4 trillion in deficits over ten years.
                • Under Harris’s plans, it would be $7.65 trillion—meaning about $3.6 to $4.3 trillion more than Trump’s deficit hit.

                šŸ“Œ Key Takeaway

                • Trump vs. ā€œCurrent-lawā€ baseline: +$3.3 trillion (CBO), possibly +$4 trillion with other models.
                • Harris vs. baseline: +$7.65 trillion.
                • Trump’s impact is therefore $3.3–4.3 trillion less than Harris’s (i.e. Harris adds ~2Ɨ Trump).

                These are projections with inherent uncertainty and vary depending on how each model assesses economic effects and policy offsets. But the core comparison is clear: Harris’s plan would add significantly more to the deficit than Trump’s ā€œBig Beautiful Bill.ā€


                • theguardian.com
                • kiplinger.com
                • nypost.com

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  The dems were never going to extend the entirety of the TCJA, not to mention add all the gimmicky tax giveaways that Trump offered on a whim at various rallies.

                  LuFins DadL Offline
                  LuFins DadL Offline
                  LuFins Dad
                  wrote last edited by
                  #8

                  @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                  The dems were never going to extend the entirety of the TCJA, not to mention add all the gimmicky tax giveaways that Trump offered on a whim at various rallies.

                  The vast majority of the CBO projections were the extension of the tax cuts. Extending them might lead to financial problems, but cancelling them definitely will. And I’ve yet to see a tax cut the CBO hasn’t massively missed the mark in projecting revenue. I hate the additional cuts with the exception of the SS benefits, but those cuts are still small potatoes.

                  The Brad

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    Here are 2024-era estimates from trusted non‑partisan sources comparing how much Trump’s and Harris’s economic plans would increase the national debt and deficits—clearly showing Trump’s would add significantly more:

                    āø»

                    🧾 Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB) – ā€œUS Budget Watch 2024ā€
                    • Harris: Central estimate adds $3.95 trillion to the debt by FY 2035 (range of +$0.3T to +$8.3T) ļæ¼
                    • Trump: Central estimate adds $7.75 trillion by FY 2035 (range of +$1.65T to +$15.55T) ļæ¼

                    āø»

                    🧮 Penn Wharton Budget Model (PWBM) – ā€œPrimary Deficitā€ over 10 years (2024–2034)
                    • Harris: Plans increase primary deficit by around $1.2 trillion (or $2.0 trillion including economic feedback effects) ļæ¼
                    • Trump: Would raise it by about $5.8 trillion (or $4.1 trillion accounting for macro impacts) ļæ¼

                    āø»

                    šŸ“ˆ CRFB via Axios
                    • Harris: Adds $3.5 trillion in cumulative deficits (2026–2035)
                    • Trump: Adds around $7.5 trillion ļæ¼

                    Bottom Line
                    • Trump’s plan consistently increases deficits by roughly $7–8 trillion over a decade-plus time horizon.
                    • Harris’s plan increases deficits by about $3–4 trillion in the same timeframe—significantly less.

                    āø»

                    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                    -Cormac McCarthy

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Horace

                      Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                      Doctor PhibesD Online
                      Doctor PhibesD Online
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote last edited by Doctor Phibes
                      #10

                      @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                      Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                      It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                      And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                      I was only joking

                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                        @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                        Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                        It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                        And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote last edited by
                        #11

                        @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                        @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                        Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                        It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                        And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                        This is a super dumb thread.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote last edited by jon-nyc
                          #12

                          Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                          "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                          -Cormac McCarthy

                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                            HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote last edited by
                            #13

                            @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                            Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                            Like a cope of not presenting a number for comparison, when I asked you very reasonably. I was totally willing to accept that the Big Beautiful Bill would have led to a bigger deficit, but ChatGPT differed. I'm happy for you that you found another AI source to indicate otherwise.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Horace

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                              @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                              Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                              It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                              And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                              This is a super dumb thread.

                              Doctor PhibesD Online
                              Doctor PhibesD Online
                              Doctor Phibes
                              wrote last edited by
                              #14

                              @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                              @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                              @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                              Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                              It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                              And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                              This is a super dumb thread.

                              Fat people dancing is always funny to watch.

                              I was only joking

                              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Horace

                                @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                                Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                                Like a cope of not presenting a number for comparison, when I asked you very reasonably. I was totally willing to accept that the Big Beautiful Bill would have led to a bigger deficit, but ChatGPT differed. I'm happy for you that you found another AI source to indicate otherwise.

                                jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nycJ Offline
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote last edited by
                                #15

                                @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                                Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                                Like a cope of not presenting a number for comparison, when I asked you very reasonably. I was totally willing to accept that the Big Beautiful Bill would have led to a bigger deficit, but ChatGPT differed. I'm happy for you that you found another AI source to indicate otherwise.

                                The other source was ChatGPT.

                                "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                                -Cormac McCarthy

                                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                                  @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                                  @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                  Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                                  It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                                  And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                                  This is a super dumb thread.

                                  Fat people dancing is always funny to watch.

                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                                  @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                  @Doctor-Phibes said in $425,000 per family:

                                  @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                  Ok feel free to put a reasonable number to the extra deficit we can attribute to Trump. It ain't 425k per family. Think as wishfully about the responsible budget we'd have gotten out of a Harris administration as you please. Just come up with a number.

                                  It's a lot easier to pay off a hypothetical debt than the real one we're stuck with.

                                  And trying to blame Harris for what has happened is kind of fun, but she's not the one who did this.

                                  This is a super dumb thread.

                                  Fat people dancing is always funny to watch.

                                  I don't know, I'm looking better these days. Don't let the weight fool you. Just because you couldn't carry 280 doesn't mean nobody can.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor PhibesD Online
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Every time I see 'Big Beautiful Bill' I immediately think it's referring to some grotesquely overweight redneck named William attempting to breakdance.

                                    And in a way, I'm right.

                                    I was only joking

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                      @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                      @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                                      Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                                      Like a cope of not presenting a number for comparison, when I asked you very reasonably. I was totally willing to accept that the Big Beautiful Bill would have led to a bigger deficit, but ChatGPT differed. I'm happy for you that you found another AI source to indicate otherwise.

                                      The other source was ChatGPT.

                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                                      @Horace said in $425,000 per family:

                                      @jon-nyc said in $425,000 per family:

                                      Yeah, obvious maga cope is obvious. Film at 11.

                                      Like a cope of not presenting a number for comparison, when I asked you very reasonably. I was totally willing to accept that the Big Beautiful Bill would have led to a bigger deficit, but ChatGPT differed. I'm happy for you that you found another AI source to indicate otherwise.

                                      The other source was ChatGPT.

                                      Looks like we have a stalemate then.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • AxtremusA Offline
                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        Axtremus
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Since when @Horace started trusting ChatGPT as an impartial referee for national fiscal matters?

                                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                          Since when @Horace started trusting ChatGPT as an impartial referee for national fiscal matters?

                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @Axtremus said in $425,000 per family:

                                          Since when @Horace started trusting ChatGPT as an impartial referee for national fiscal matters?

                                          I trust it to be relatively impartial, but not to necessarily be right.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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