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  3. Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky

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  • JollyJ Jolly

    @taiwan_girl said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

    @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

    They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.

    As I said in another thread as a hypothetic, which I hope does not come true.

    Currently: President Trump cuts foreign aid, shrinks expenses of government.
    Everybody says YAY!! Greatest president ever.

    50-100 years from now: China (or another country) steps into vacuum created. Starts to "box" US out of world economy. US economy goes into long term decline.

    Let's face some very hard facts. Uncle Sugar is so deep in debt, the debt payment is equal to the world police, er, military budget.

    So if you are expecting the U.S. to put water on every blazing conflict in the world, I've got news for you:

    John Wayne's dead and the calvary ain't coming.

    The U.S. is going to have a leaner, more lethal military, but it cannot afford to project power as it has since WW2. The country will coalesce it's defensive plans into what benefits our nation the most, at the least cost of blood and treasure.

    Can China "box" the U.S. in? Not anytime soon, I don't think. I think the U.S. is going to place a lot of emphasis on Japan, India and Australia, but I'm not sure about Taiwan or the Philippines, as they try to keep the Chinese in check.

    As for Europe, something I heard that I'm not certain about...If you ranked all European countries individually against Mississippi, Mississippi is worth more. That might be ludicrous, but it underscores that it's a long time since 1945, Europe has rebuilt and they need to take care of themselves.

    That's not isolationism, rather it's a return to fiscal responsibility and some international common sense.

    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girlT Offline
    taiwan_girl
    wrote on last edited by
    #223

    @Jolly What you say may be right, and if it is, I think that the consequence of that will be a lessened US power and influence throughout the world.

    Personally, I dont think that is for the better. It will hurt in economics, diplomatic, trade, etc.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #224

      Don’t bother TG. He’s deaf to anything other than what he wants to hear and believe. And like a Mormon, he arrives with all his answers and responses prepared.

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • HoraceH Horace

        @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #225

        @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

        @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

        They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

        But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

          @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

          They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

          But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.

          HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by
          #226

          @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

          @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

          They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

          Interesting. Cite? How do you square that with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and will ultimately lose unless something changes?

          But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.

          Obviously, I'm talking about the public discussion in America.

          Education is extremely important.

          jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #227

            He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Horace

              @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

              They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

              Interesting. Cite? How do you square that with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and will ultimately lose unless something changes?

              But there were plenty of complaints about Biden’s strategy if you knew where to look. Kasparov was a rather loud and consistent voice.

              Obviously, I'm talking about the public discussion in America.

              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #228

              @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

              @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

              They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

              Interesting. Cite?

              Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
              • Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
              • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
              • Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).

              Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #229

                So there is no squaring with the commonly accepted notion that Ukraine is losing the war, and the claim, while technically true, is a rhetorical cheap trick. Russia happened to occupy a bunch of territory in an undefended blitz at the start, from which they were pushed back, and into which they continue to encroach slowly.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #230

                  @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                  He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                  Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #231

                    IMG_3418.jpeg
                    IMG_3417.jpeg

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Horace

                      @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                      Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.

                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #232

                      @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                      He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                      Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.

                      He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                        Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.

                        He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #233

                        @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                        He’s in America with a decent social media platform.

                        Sigh. You are completely shameless. I guess that's a gift.

                        He’s a public intellectual and gets interviewed a lot. Just because he hasn’t been on Rogan or Petersons podcast doesn’t mean he’s not part of the conversation. Maybe you need to add some non-magats to your twitter feed or some non-wokes to your Bluesky.

                        No, this is not a failure of the breadth of my info feeds. This is a failure of your good faith reading of my point. You are eager to dunk as always, so you took my claims about how relatively quiet the opposition was to the Biden status quo, as a claim that there was no opposition at all. Because jon's gotta dunk. It's bad faith, and more tedious than you'll ever know.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

                          They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

                          Interesting. Cite?

                          Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
                          • Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
                          • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
                          • Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).

                          Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.

                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins Dad
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #234

                          @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                          @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

                          They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

                          Interesting. Cite?

                          Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
                          • Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
                          • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
                          • Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).

                          Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.

                          How do the battle lines compare with the 2015/16 borders?

                          The Brad

                          taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL LuFins Dad

                            @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                            @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                            @jon-nyc said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                            @Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                            @jon-nyc Great. Then it remains very odd how quiet the opposition was to the status quo under Biden, where Russia was slowly consuming Ukraine.

                            They control less Ukrainian land now than they did 3 years ago.

                            Interesting. Cite?

                            Russia controlled the most Ukrainian territory in the current war around March 2022, shortly after the full-scale invasion began on February 24, 2022. At its peak, Russian forces occupied approximately 22% of Ukraine, including:
                            • Nearly all of Luhansk and Donetsk (beyond pre-2022 positions).
                            • Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions, including Kherson city.
                            • Northern Ukraine, including areas near Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy (which they withdrew from in April 2022).

                            Since then, Ukraine has regained significant territory, especially through counteroffensives in Kharkiv (September 2022) and Kherson (November 2022). Today, Russia still occupies parts of eastern and southern Ukraine, but its territorial control is significantly reduced from its early-war peak.

                            How do the battle lines compare with the 2015/16 borders?

                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girlT Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #235

                            @LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                            How do the battle lines compare with the 2015/16 borders?

                            As always, you got me thinking. So, did some checking and found a pretty good map from the BBC

                            alt text

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #236

                              He may have lost Farage and LePen:

                              But he still has Medvedev.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #237

                                Only non-witches get due process.

                                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girlT Offline
                                  taiwan_girl
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #238

                                  @jon-nyc Yeah, Sec Rubio has to be cringing with some of the policies he has to follow. I think he will be one of the first ministers to leave - either voluntary or otherwise.

                                  AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

                                    @jon-nyc Yeah, Sec Rubio has to be cringing with some of the policies he has to follow. I think he will be one of the first ministers to leave - either voluntary or otherwise.

                                    AxtremusA Offline
                                    AxtremusA Offline
                                    Axtremus
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #239

                                    @taiwan_girl said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                    @jon-nyc Yeah, Sec Rubio has to be cringing with some of the policies he has to follow. I think he will be one of the first ministers to leave - either voluntary or otherwise.

                                    No, Trump is already a known quantity by his second election. Rubio knew exactly when he was getting into and he got in there anyway. He will continue to toe Trump’s line, whatever that is.

                                    RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                      @taiwan_girl said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:

                                      @jon-nyc Yeah, Sec Rubio has to be cringing with some of the policies he has to follow. I think he will be one of the first ministers to leave - either voluntary or otherwise.

                                      No, Trump is already a known quantity by his second election. Rubio knew exactly when he was getting into and he got in there anyway. He will continue to toe Trump’s line, whatever that is.

                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      RenaudaR Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #240

                                      @Axtremus

                                      Not sure, Ax. I think Rubio will either bail or risk being mercilessly thrown under the bus, when it becomes evident Putin has no intention to negotiate in good faith.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #241

                                        The administration has reached the point where this had to be said.

                                        IMG_3528.jpeg

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • 89th8 Offline
                                          89th8 Offline
                                          89th
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #242

                                          I thought nothing was off the table to appease negotiate with Putin?

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