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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #2415

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fox-news-us-and-russia-propose-three-stage-peace-plan/ar-AA1zi12J

    Not liking this.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • RenaudaR Offline
      RenaudaR Offline
      Renauda
      wrote on last edited by Renauda
      #2416

      As long as Ukraine is in a state of martial law there will no presidential election. That much is written into Ukraine’s constitution. Any talk of it by either Moscow or Washington is unwarranted grandstanding at this time.

      All today’s meeting accomplished was an agreement to reestablish diplomatic channels to facilitate the negotiation process. Along with the standard Kremlin line of bald face lies and distortions, I really didn’t get much out of Lavrov’s presser other than Russia’s demands of all parties remain unmitigated and every bit as harsh and punitive as they were three years ago. Perhaps even harsher. Russia continues to insist that it is the sole victim in this war.

      Rubio is right, this is going to be a long and hard negotiation. It could break down at any point.

      https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/02/18/russias-lavrov-says-hes-unaware-of-reported-3-stage-ukraine-peace-plan-a88064

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girlT Offline
        taiwan_girl
        wrote on last edited by
        #2417

        I dont understand why at least Ukraine would not be involved in the initial negotiations. Maybe not face to face with Russia at the start, but they should be there.

        Also think that Europe should be also. From a money standpoint, I believe that they have contributed both more money and materials to Ukraine.

        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
        • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

          I dont understand why at least Ukraine would not be involved in the initial negotiations. Maybe not face to face with Russia at the start, but they should be there.

          Also think that Europe should be also. From a money standpoint, I believe that they have contributed both more money and materials to Ukraine.

          RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by Renauda
          #2418

          @taiwan_girl

          At this point neither the US or Russia have ambassadors or a full working compliment in their respective embassies. Normal diplomatic channels between the two have been pretty much severed for the last three years. The US and Russia are therefore just trying to set up a diplomatic framework then to proceed towards a negotiation process. Once that process has been determined then I should think Ukraine will become a party to the negotiations.

          Russia remains determined to receive Ukraine’s total capitulation. It stop at nothing to get Washington to agree to Russia’s absolute terms throughout the process.

          Elbows up!

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            Just watched it. Rational and clear eyed.

            The question in my mind is how badly does Putin want out of his own tar baby. That more than anything will drive how all this turns out.

            The other factor is the Ukrainian population’s ability to continue mustering personnel. That I have no feel for.

            JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #2419

            @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

            Just watched it. Rational and clear eyed.

            The question in my mind is how badly does Putin want out of his own tar baby. That more than anything will drive how all this turns out.

            The other factor is the Ukrainian population’s ability to continue mustering personnel. That I have no feel for.

            Ukraine is staggering. They lowered their draft age from 27 to 25 about a year ago and stepped up recruitment efforts in the 18-24 range. They had around 8.7M draft age men when Russia invaded, now they have less than 5M ( due both to combat injuries and males who have fled the country). Ukraine has around 65K women volunteers in their armed services.

            Russia has a larger population from which to draw. In the last twelve months, some sources state they've drafted about 280,000 men. They are also recruiting soldiers in occupied Ukraine. Ukraine claims Russia has lost 833,000 soldiers in the war.

            Currently, it's February and conditions are not good for big offensive maneuvers, but when it dries up in the spring, I'm predicting a sizeable Russian push.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            1 Reply Last reply
            • taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girl
              wrote on last edited by
              #2420

              Confidently rolling toward Ukrainian lines in western Russia’s Kursk Oblast in up-armored vehicles brazenly flying the flag of the defunct Soviet Union, an assault group from the Russian 155th Naval Infantry Brigade paraded right into a minefield laid by the Ukrainian 47th Mechanized Brigade.
              Mines blew up some of the Russian vehicles. Drones struck others and also hounded the dismounted infantry.

              One shell-shocked Russian crewman bailed out of his damaged vehicle, trudged a few steps through the snow, fell flat onto his back—and then exploded as a drone slammed into him.

              ***NSFW content***

              click to show

              alt text

              1 Reply Last reply
              • RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #2421

                Right now am listening to Trump talk about Ukraine in a Q & A presser from his Florida palace.

                Trump is laying the bulk of the blame on Kyiv for this war, among other exaggerations, deflections and distortions. I feel very sorry for Rubio, his boss’s inability to show any statesmanship or hold his tongue is making a very difficult task into a near to impossible task.

                Normally I would ask for someone to pass the barf bag. But this time I think need the whole porcelain bowl.

                Edit (2 hours later):

                What Trump said:

                "I'm very disappointed, I hear that they're upset about not having a seat," Trump told reporters when asked what he would say to Ukrainians who feel "betrayed."

                "Today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years...You should have never started it. You could have made a deal," he said.

                https://amp.abc.net.au/article/104953730

                Elbows up!

                RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Renauda

                  Right now am listening to Trump talk about Ukraine in a Q & A presser from his Florida palace.

                  Trump is laying the bulk of the blame on Kyiv for this war, among other exaggerations, deflections and distortions. I feel very sorry for Rubio, his boss’s inability to show any statesmanship or hold his tongue is making a very difficult task into a near to impossible task.

                  Normally I would ask for someone to pass the barf bag. But this time I think need the whole porcelain bowl.

                  Edit (2 hours later):

                  What Trump said:

                  "I'm very disappointed, I hear that they're upset about not having a seat," Trump told reporters when asked what he would say to Ukrainians who feel "betrayed."

                  "Today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years...You should have never started it. You could have made a deal," he said.

                  https://amp.abc.net.au/article/104953730

                  RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                  #2422

                  Dbl post

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Away
                    MikM Away
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #2423

                    How does he figure it’s Ukraine’s fault? Seems like stretch, but he may have hard feelings

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #2424

                      I may not have heard what Renauda heard, but I heard a lot of blaming of Biden rather than Ukraine.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Horace

                        I may not have heard what Renauda heard, but I heard a lot of blaming of Biden rather than Ukraine.

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #2425

                        @Horace

                        The blame Biden crap, I file under deflections and squelch. Just like Beauregard’s coffee and doughnut shop gossip around here.

                        You didn’t hear what Trumpigula said about Ukraine because you either weren’t listening or you didn’t want to hear it. To be honest I didn’t want to hear it either but I did and so did everyone else who was paying attention.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #2426

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #2427

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Online
                              HoraceH Online
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by Horace
                              #2428

                              Word on the street is that Zelensky wouldn't even win an election in Ukraine right now.

                              https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                #2429

                                I normally don’t look to CNN (or for that matter, any US news outlet) but the following clip is too good to pass up. At least two Republican senators haven’t drunk the Putin Kool-Aide:

                                https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/18/politics/video/roger-wicker-john-kennedy-trump-putin-digvid

                                @Horace

                                Word on the street is that Zelensky wouldn't even win an election in Ukraine right now.

                                https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

                                Surprised you would even give credence to a “street” poll under the conditions a country like Ukraine is currently facing. Must be for the sake of convenience or you actually believe Trump’s bald faced lies on the matter. On the other hand, you might get more favourable results if the poll were taken in Moscow.

                                Anyways, let’s just wait a few more weeks to see how brutally Trump continues to rubbish and belittle the Ukrainian nation and their President. Then, by all means, let Gallup do another poll. This one you posted is nothing more than old hat from last autumn.

                                Ukraine’s dilemma at this moment is not too far removed from Poland in August 1939:

                                “With the Germans, we risk losing our freedom,” said Polish commander-in-chief Edward Rydz-Smigly, “with the Russians our soul.”

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                  Doctor Phibes
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #2430

                                  The idea that Zelensky is the problem here seems completely bogus.

                                  WTF are the Republicans thinking?

                                  I was only joking

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Away
                                    MikM Away
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #2431

                                    The party needs to give POTUS a big wakeup call.

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Online
                                      HoraceH Online
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #2432

                                      I remain skeptical of the Western attitude of fierce principled support of Ukraine continuing to fight a war it cannot win, and which it is increasingly sick of fighting. I see no clear list of attainable goals for Ukraine that Trump is thwarting with his negotiations. We'll see where the negotiations go, but I am hard pressed to consider them a loss for Ukraine as of now. Sometimes both parties in a fight are happy when they are pulled apart. I think it is interesting that Zelensky's support in Ukraine is waning, along with support for the war in general.

                                      https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-polls-show-most-ukrainians-now-support-a-negotiated-peace-as-russian-advances-continue-244419

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • RenaudaR Offline
                                        RenaudaR Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                        #2433

                                        Nothing wrong with healthy dose of scepticism so long as it is accurately informed and not the result of blind ignorance out of personal choice.

                                        I am sceptical about the motives of tyrants and demogogues and the sloppy thinkers who continually cheerlead and apologize for their repugnant and threatening behaviour on the world stage.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Renauda

                                          Nothing wrong with healthy dose of scepticism so long as it is accurately informed and not the result of blind ignorance out of personal choice.

                                          I am sceptical about the motives of tyrants and demogogues and the sloppy thinkers who continually cheerlead and apologize for their repugnant and threatening behaviour on the world stage.

                                          HoraceH Online
                                          HoraceH Online
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #2434

                                          @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          Nothing wrong with healthy dose of scepticism so long as it is accurately informed and not the result of blind ignorance out of personal choice.

                                          I don't feel at all ignorant about my skepticism of armchair westerners and their tribalized support for the war, and opposition to Trump's methods of trying to end it.

                                          I may be ignorant about the level of support the war currently enjoys from the Ukrainians bearing the brunt of it, and if so I'm happy to be proven wrong. That proof will not take the form of hand waves about principles of freedom.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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