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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #2414

    Just watched it. Rational and clear eyed.

    The question in my mind is how badly does Putin want out of his own tar baby. That more than anything will drive how all this turns out.

    The other factor is the Ukrainian population’s ability to continue mustering personnel. That I have no feel for.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Away
      MikM Away
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2415

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fox-news-us-and-russia-propose-three-stage-peace-plan/ar-AA1zi12J

      Not liking this.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • RenaudaR Offline
        RenaudaR Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on last edited by Renauda
        #2416

        As long as Ukraine is in a state of martial law there will no presidential election. That much is written into Ukraine’s constitution. Any talk of it by either Moscow or Washington is unwarranted grandstanding at this time.

        All today’s meeting accomplished was an agreement to reestablish diplomatic channels to facilitate the negotiation process. Along with the standard Kremlin line of bald face lies and distortions, I really didn’t get much out of Lavrov’s presser other than Russia’s demands of all parties remain unmitigated and every bit as harsh and punitive as they were three years ago. Perhaps even harsher. Russia continues to insist that it is the sole victim in this war.

        Rubio is right, this is going to be a long and hard negotiation. It could break down at any point.

        https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2025/02/18/russias-lavrov-says-hes-unaware-of-reported-3-stage-ukraine-peace-plan-a88064

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • taiwan_girlT Offline
          taiwan_girlT Offline
          taiwan_girl
          wrote on last edited by
          #2417

          I dont understand why at least Ukraine would not be involved in the initial negotiations. Maybe not face to face with Russia at the start, but they should be there.

          Also think that Europe should be also. From a money standpoint, I believe that they have contributed both more money and materials to Ukraine.

          RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
          • taiwan_girlT taiwan_girl

            I dont understand why at least Ukraine would not be involved in the initial negotiations. Maybe not face to face with Russia at the start, but they should be there.

            Also think that Europe should be also. From a money standpoint, I believe that they have contributed both more money and materials to Ukraine.

            RenaudaR Offline
            RenaudaR Offline
            Renauda
            wrote on last edited by Renauda
            #2418

            @taiwan_girl

            At this point neither the US or Russia have ambassadors or a full working compliment in their respective embassies. Normal diplomatic channels between the two have been pretty much severed for the last three years. The US and Russia are therefore just trying to set up a diplomatic framework then to proceed towards a negotiation process. Once that process has been determined then I should think Ukraine will become a party to the negotiations.

            Russia remains determined to receive Ukraine’s total capitulation. It stop at nothing to get Washington to agree to Russia’s absolute terms throughout the process.

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • MikM Mik

              Just watched it. Rational and clear eyed.

              The question in my mind is how badly does Putin want out of his own tar baby. That more than anything will drive how all this turns out.

              The other factor is the Ukrainian population’s ability to continue mustering personnel. That I have no feel for.

              JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #2419

              @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

              Just watched it. Rational and clear eyed.

              The question in my mind is how badly does Putin want out of his own tar baby. That more than anything will drive how all this turns out.

              The other factor is the Ukrainian population’s ability to continue mustering personnel. That I have no feel for.

              Ukraine is staggering. They lowered their draft age from 27 to 25 about a year ago and stepped up recruitment efforts in the 18-24 range. They had around 8.7M draft age men when Russia invaded, now they have less than 5M ( due both to combat injuries and males who have fled the country). Ukraine has around 65K women volunteers in their armed services.

              Russia has a larger population from which to draw. In the last twelve months, some sources state they've drafted about 280,000 men. They are also recruiting soldiers in occupied Ukraine. Ukraine claims Russia has lost 833,000 soldiers in the war.

              Currently, it's February and conditions are not good for big offensive maneuvers, but when it dries up in the spring, I'm predicting a sizeable Russian push.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girl
                wrote on last edited by
                #2420

                Confidently rolling toward Ukrainian lines in western Russia’s Kursk Oblast in up-armored vehicles brazenly flying the flag of the defunct Soviet Union, an assault group from the Russian 155th Naval Infantry Brigade paraded right into a minefield laid by the Ukrainian 47th Mechanized Brigade.
                Mines blew up some of the Russian vehicles. Drones struck others and also hounded the dismounted infantry.

                One shell-shocked Russian crewman bailed out of his damaged vehicle, trudged a few steps through the snow, fell flat onto his back—and then exploded as a drone slammed into him.

                ***NSFW content***

                click to show

                alt text

                1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                  #2421

                  Right now am listening to Trump talk about Ukraine in a Q & A presser from his Florida palace.

                  Trump is laying the bulk of the blame on Kyiv for this war, among other exaggerations, deflections and distortions. I feel very sorry for Rubio, his boss’s inability to show any statesmanship or hold his tongue is making a very difficult task into a near to impossible task.

                  Normally I would ask for someone to pass the barf bag. But this time I think need the whole porcelain bowl.

                  Edit (2 hours later):

                  What Trump said:

                  "I'm very disappointed, I hear that they're upset about not having a seat," Trump told reporters when asked what he would say to Ukrainians who feel "betrayed."

                  "Today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years...You should have never started it. You could have made a deal," he said.

                  https://amp.abc.net.au/article/104953730

                  Elbows up!

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • RenaudaR Renauda

                    Right now am listening to Trump talk about Ukraine in a Q & A presser from his Florida palace.

                    Trump is laying the bulk of the blame on Kyiv for this war, among other exaggerations, deflections and distortions. I feel very sorry for Rubio, his boss’s inability to show any statesmanship or hold his tongue is making a very difficult task into a near to impossible task.

                    Normally I would ask for someone to pass the barf bag. But this time I think need the whole porcelain bowl.

                    Edit (2 hours later):

                    What Trump said:

                    "I'm very disappointed, I hear that they're upset about not having a seat," Trump told reporters when asked what he would say to Ukrainians who feel "betrayed."

                    "Today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years...You should have never started it. You could have made a deal," he said.

                    https://amp.abc.net.au/article/104953730

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #2422

                    Dbl post

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Away
                      MikM Away
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #2423

                      How does he figure it’s Ukraine’s fault? Seems like stretch, but he may have hard feelings

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #2424

                        I may not have heard what Renauda heard, but I heard a lot of blaming of Biden rather than Ukraine.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          I may not have heard what Renauda heard, but I heard a lot of blaming of Biden rather than Ukraine.

                          RenaudaR Offline
                          RenaudaR Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                          #2425

                          @Horace

                          The blame Biden crap, I file under deflections and squelch. Just like Beauregard’s coffee and doughnut shop gossip around here.

                          You didn’t hear what Trumpigula said about Ukraine because you either weren’t listening or you didn’t want to hear it. To be honest I didn’t want to hear it either but I did and so did everyone else who was paying attention.

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nycJ Offline
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #2426

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #2427

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by Horace
                                #2428

                                Word on the street is that Zelensky wouldn't even win an election in Ukraine right now.

                                https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Offline
                                  RenaudaR Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                  #2429

                                  I normally don’t look to CNN (or for that matter, any US news outlet) but the following clip is too good to pass up. At least two Republican senators haven’t drunk the Putin Kool-Aide:

                                  https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/18/politics/video/roger-wicker-john-kennedy-trump-putin-digvid

                                  @Horace

                                  Word on the street is that Zelensky wouldn't even win an election in Ukraine right now.

                                  https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx

                                  Surprised you would even give credence to a “street” poll under the conditions a country like Ukraine is currently facing. Must be for the sake of convenience or you actually believe Trump’s bald faced lies on the matter. On the other hand, you might get more favourable results if the poll were taken in Moscow.

                                  Anyways, let’s just wait a few more weeks to see how brutally Trump continues to rubbish and belittle the Ukrainian nation and their President. Then, by all means, let Gallup do another poll. This one you posted is nothing more than old hat from last autumn.

                                  Ukraine’s dilemma at this moment is not too far removed from Poland in August 1939:

                                  “With the Germans, we risk losing our freedom,” said Polish commander-in-chief Edward Rydz-Smigly, “with the Russians our soul.”

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #2430

                                    The idea that Zelensky is the problem here seems completely bogus.

                                    WTF are the Republicans thinking?

                                    I was only joking

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Away
                                      MikM Away
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #2431

                                      The party needs to give POTUS a big wakeup call.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #2432

                                        I remain skeptical of the Western attitude of fierce principled support of Ukraine continuing to fight a war it cannot win, and which it is increasingly sick of fighting. I see no clear list of attainable goals for Ukraine that Trump is thwarting with his negotiations. We'll see where the negotiations go, but I am hard pressed to consider them a loss for Ukraine as of now. Sometimes both parties in a fight are happy when they are pulled apart. I think it is interesting that Zelensky's support in Ukraine is waning, along with support for the war in general.

                                        https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-polls-show-most-ukrainians-now-support-a-negotiated-peace-as-russian-advances-continue-244419

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #2433

                                          Nothing wrong with healthy dose of scepticism so long as it is accurately informed and not the result of blind ignorance out of personal choice.

                                          I am sceptical about the motives of tyrants and demogogues and the sloppy thinkers who continually cheerlead and apologize for their repugnant and threatening behaviour on the world stage.

                                          Elbows up!

                                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
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