Work from home - forever.

[jon-nyc]

@89th said in Work from home - forever.:

@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:

Availability to the taxpayers they serve, transparency, accountability, and security. None of these are being served by having these people work from home. They must be in an office in a Federal facility. Preferably a new one in Florida, since this is SSA and Florida is where the seniors live. And not one of the sexy places in Florida, I’m thinking Ocala or even The Villages.

I was waiting for this response.

I don't really agree with you. These aren't elected officials, these are civilians hired to perform tasks for the federal government. If the tasks they need to perform do not include requirements that are only found in a federal office building, or do not require access by the public, then it doesn't really bother me where the person is located as long as the job is getting done.

Says the guy who works remotely for the government.

[taiwan_girl]

I dont get it? Another dumb move by President Biden.

There was a push (I thought by him, but probably mistaken) to have government workers go back to the office. Mainly because of the lowering taxes without workers in town, the decreased restaurant, store, etc. revenues.

[Doctor Phibes]

@89th said in Work from home - forever.:

@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:

Availability to the taxpayers they serve, transparency, accountability, and security. None of these are being served by having these people work from home. They must be in an office in a Federal facility. Preferably a new one in Florida, since this is SSA and Florida is where the seniors live. And not one of the sexy places in Florida, I’m thinking Ocala or even The Villages.

I was waiting for this response.

I don't really agree with you. These aren't elected officials, these are civilians hired to perform tasks for the federal government. If the tasks they need to perform do not include requirements that are only found in a federal office building, or do not require access by the public, then it doesn't really bother me where the person is located as long as the job is getting done.

I think it's a mistake to treat government workers differently from private sector people, either for better or worse. The idea that they're 'public servants working tirelessly for the common good' is as bogus as that they're all constantly on the make. I'm sure there are good and bad people on both sides.

[89th]

@jon-nyc said in Work from home - forever.:

@89th said in Work from home - forever.:

@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:

Availability to the taxpayers they serve, transparency, accountability, and security. None of these are being served by having these people work from home. They must be in an office in a Federal facility. Preferably a new one in Florida, since this is SSA and Florida is where the seniors live. And not one of the sexy places in Florida, I’m thinking Ocala or even The Villages.

I was waiting for this response.

I don't really agree with you. These aren't elected officials, these are civilians hired to perform tasks for the federal government. If the tasks they need to perform do not include requirements that are only found in a federal office building, or do not require access by the public, then it doesn't really bother me where the person is located as long as the job is getting done.

Says the guy who works remotely for the government.

Haha fair enough. But I'm not a federal employee, although realistically my contract does "augment staff" (aka use a contractor and pay a rate instead of hiring an employee and all of the HR/benefits that come with it). Either way, I am a good example I suppose... I work in IT, I can't go into details but there is zero reason for me to be in a secure building when everything I do can be done via a remote connection.

[Jolly]

Send 'em back.

I could see letting them work from home maybe a day two per week, if the agency permits.

But...I didn't go into many federal agency offices, but I have been in a lot of state government agency offices. Remote work is a nightmare for management. You have enough problems with accountability, when you have the employee in the office everyday. Throw in the government union, with how hard they make it to discipline and terminate employees, and it's like trying to herd angry cats with a peach limb.

[taiwan_girl]

Not sure if we are in the minority on this forum board, but I agree with Jolly on this. I always think it is better to be face to face, have the "water cooler talks", meet colleges for lunch, etc. And actually, for government people, it may be even more important as their salaries are paid from taxes at those same restaurants, stores etc,

[LuFins Dad]

I just don’t want @89th to be doing whatever it is he’s doing with his Chinese girlfriend looking over his shoulder…

[Jolly]

I always thought the name Suk Yoo was a little suspicious...

[Aqua Letifer]

@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:

You have enough problems with accountability.

No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.

That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.

I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.

The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:

@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:

You have enough problems with accountability.

No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.

That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.

I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.

The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.

I didn't have any real problems with my team working from home. I know which ones work hard/effectively without me constantly checking in and which ones need a little "motivation".

I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people, but I also think that 2-3 days WFH can provide significant benefits to both employee and management.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Work from home - forever.:

I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people,

Who's gonna decide that? You?

I ask because that's another big problem. An extrovert or more socially-minded worker's going to be right shit at working remotely. For introverts, neurodivergents, etc., many should work from home more often, not less.

And I've yet to hear anyone consider any of this when initiating a policy.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Work from home - forever.:

I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people,

Who's gonna decide that? You?

I ask because that's another big problem. An extrovert or more socially-minded worker's going to be right shit at working remotely. For introverts, neurodivergents, etc., many should work from home more often, not less.

You say that, but during Covid the one person who really struggled in my team was the introvert who was working in the UK. I ended up having video meetings pretty much everyday because I was worried about him. The extrovert would look for any excuse for a Teams call, and actually in some ways did better because when he's in the office he tends to distract both himself and everybody around him.

It gets quite complicated, and the people who write policy generally don't like complicated.

[LuFins Dad]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:

@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:

You have enough problems with accountability.

No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.

That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.

I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.

The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.

Yeah, my personal view on private employees working from home, it’s far more complicated.

For many, it can be a godsend, and there are employees that will excel at it. There are others that will not do well in that situation and are best off in the office. There are some that will be best suited for a hybrid role, and others that need constancy and routine that need one or the other, but not both… and those same employees that need constancy and routine are not going to be well served by others working in a hybrid role, as that will still interfere with their routine. I don’t think there’s going to be an entirely satisfactory solution for everyone…

Except for Federal employees. Put them all in an office. One where they have to walk past pissed off tax payers flipping them off the whole way.

[Copper]

@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:

One where they have to walk past pissed off tax payers flipping them off the whole way.

Then you would have to pay for counselling.

[89th]

@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:

I always thought the name Suk Yoo was a little suspicious...

Much better than working with her brother Suk Mi…

[Jolly]

@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:

@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:

You have enough problems with accountability.

No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.

That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.

I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.

The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.

Bullshit.

I lived in a LEAN environment, ruled by the God of Sigma Six. We fucking counted hand motions. A decent size medical lab is a business thar revolves around production. A flow of information that constitutes 70% of the medical decisions in a typical patient's chart.

That information flow must continue, without abate, no matter what the circumstances and it must continue efficiently. Whether it be adverse weather such as a hurricane, staffing issues or somebody putting a bullet through the goddamn window.

Because somewhere there's a gutshot OB headed to surgery, a kid with a hot appendix, a drunk screaming from pancreatitis or an oncologist breathing down the path's neck who's casting a grim eye at the histo tech.

All the numbers are wonderful and I could look at production literally broken down to the working minute. But numbers do not tell everything. Sam Walton believed in MBWA (management by walking around) and if he walked in off the street and caught a manager in his office twice in a row, he fired him.

Some people are more efficient in some pairings or groups more than others. Some work quality can suffer nonquantifiable parameters. Some work solutions are achieved by coworkers brainstorming in the moment.

Different people need different impetus to achieve their best work. The best way to cipher out the right buttons is to know and observe a person in real time, in real life.

[Mik]

I'm pretty extroverted, yet I work best at home. I've mostly had jobs where no one really knew where I was supposed to be anyway, so it worked out well. Still, no one ever needed to watch over me to make me get my job done. I think some introverts need interaction more than others, and they need someone to know when they are overwhelmed, etc.

In short, no hard and fast rule works for many situations. A good manager adjusts.

[LuFins Dad]

I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.

[George K]

@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:

I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.

Same here.....

....and I'd have to buy a shit-ton of equipment.

[Copper]

I'd have to buy a golf course.