Work from home - forever.
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Send 'em back.
I could see letting them work from home maybe a day two per week, if the agency permits.
But...I didn't go into many federal agency offices, but I have been in a lot of state government agency offices. Remote work is a nightmare for management. You have enough problems with accountability, when you have the employee in the office everyday. Throw in the government union, with how hard they make it to discipline and terminate employees, and it's like trying to herd angry cats with a peach limb.
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Please love yourself.
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@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
I didn't have any real problems with my team working from home. I know which ones work hard/effectively without me constantly checking in and which ones need a little "motivation".
I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people, but I also think that 2-3 days WFH can provide significant benefits to both employee and management.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
I didn't have any real problems with my team working from home. I know which ones work hard/effectively without me constantly checking in and which ones need a little "motivation".
I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people, but I also think that 2-3 days WFH can provide significant benefits to both employee and management.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Work from home - forever.:
I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people,
Who's gonna decide that? You?
I ask because that's another big problem. An extrovert or more socially-minded worker's going to be right shit at working remotely. For introverts, neurodivergents, etc., many should work from home more often, not less.
And I've yet to hear anyone consider any of this when initiating a policy.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Work from home - forever.:
I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people,
Who's gonna decide that? You?
I ask because that's another big problem. An extrovert or more socially-minded worker's going to be right shit at working remotely. For introverts, neurodivergents, etc., many should work from home more often, not less.
And I've yet to hear anyone consider any of this when initiating a policy.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Work from home - forever.:
I don't think 5 days a week WFH is a good idea for most people,
Who's gonna decide that? You?
I ask because that's another big problem. An extrovert or more socially-minded worker's going to be right shit at working remotely. For introverts, neurodivergents, etc., many should work from home more often, not less.
You say that, but during Covid the one person who really struggled in my team was the introvert who was working in the UK. I ended up having video meetings pretty much everyday because I was worried about him. The extrovert would look for any excuse for a Teams call, and actually in some ways did better because when he's in the office he tends to distract both himself and everybody around him.
It gets quite complicated, and the people who write policy generally don't like complicated.
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@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Yeah, my personal view on private employees working from home, it’s far more complicated.
For many, it can be a godsend, and there are employees that will excel at it. There are others that will not do well in that situation and are best off in the office. There are some that will be best suited for a hybrid role, and others that need constancy and routine that need one or the other, but not both… and those same employees that need constancy and routine are not going to be well served by others working in a hybrid role, as that will still interfere with their routine. I don’t think there’s going to be an entirely satisfactory solution for everyone…
Except for Federal employees. Put them all in an office. One where they have to walk past pissed off tax payers flipping them off the whole way.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Yeah, my personal view on private employees working from home, it’s far more complicated.
For many, it can be a godsend, and there are employees that will excel at it. There are others that will not do well in that situation and are best off in the office. There are some that will be best suited for a hybrid role, and others that need constancy and routine that need one or the other, but not both… and those same employees that need constancy and routine are not going to be well served by others working in a hybrid role, as that will still interfere with their routine. I don’t think there’s going to be an entirely satisfactory solution for everyone…
Except for Federal employees. Put them all in an office. One where they have to walk past pissed off tax payers flipping them off the whole way.
@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:
One where they have to walk past pissed off tax payers flipping them off the whole way.
Then you would have to pay for counselling.
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@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Bullshit.
I lived in a LEAN environment, ruled by the God of Sigma Six. We fucking counted hand motions. A decent size medical lab is a business thar revolves around production. A flow of information that constitutes 70% of the medical decisions in a typical patient's chart.
That information flow must continue, without abate, no matter what the circumstances and it must continue efficiently. Whether it be adverse weather such as a hurricane, staffing issues or somebody putting a bullet through the goddamn window.
Because somewhere there's a gutshot OB headed to surgery, a kid with a hot appendix, a drunk screaming from pancreatitis or an oncologist breathing down the path's neck who's casting a grim eye at the histo tech.
All the numbers are wonderful and I could look at production literally broken down to the working minute. But numbers do not tell everything. Sam Walton believed in MBWA (management by walking around) and if he walked in off the street and caught a manager in his office twice in a row, he fired him.
Some people are more efficient in some pairings or groups more than others. Some work quality can suffer nonquantifiable parameters. Some work solutions are achieved by coworkers brainstorming in the moment.
Different people need different impetus to achieve their best work. The best way to cipher out the right buttons is to know and observe a person in real time, in real life.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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I'm pretty extroverted, yet I work best at home. I've mostly had jobs where no one really knew where I was supposed to be anyway, so it worked out well. Still, no one ever needed to watch over me to make me get my job done. I think some introverts need interaction more than others, and they need someone to know when they are overwhelmed, etc.
In short, no hard and fast rule works for many situations. A good manager adjusts.
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I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.
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I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.
@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:
I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.
Same here.....
....and I'd have to buy a shit-ton of equipment.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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At one time, in our building, we had a general surgeon, a neurosurgeon, a gas-passer, and several nurses. We could have made it work.
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At one time, in our building, we had a general surgeon, a neurosurgeon, a gas-passer, and several nurses. We could have made it work.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:
I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.
Same here.....
....and I'd have to buy a shit-ton of equipment.
@George-K said in Work from home - forever.:
@LuFins-Dad said in Work from home - forever.:
I can’t really work from home… Unless we bought a much larger house.
Same here.....
....and I'd have to buy a shit-ton of equipment.
Yeah, but you’d have an awesome stash.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Bullshit.
I lived in a LEAN environment, ruled by the God of Sigma Six. We fucking counted hand motions. A decent size medical lab is a business thar revolves around production. A flow of information that constitutes 70% of the medical decisions in a typical patient's chart.
That information flow must continue, without abate, no matter what the circumstances and it must continue efficiently. Whether it be adverse weather such as a hurricane, staffing issues or somebody putting a bullet through the goddamn window.
Because somewhere there's a gutshot OB headed to surgery, a kid with a hot appendix, a drunk screaming from pancreatitis or an oncologist breathing down the path's neck who's casting a grim eye at the histo tech.
All the numbers are wonderful and I could look at production literally broken down to the working minute. But numbers do not tell everything. Sam Walton believed in MBWA (management by walking around) and if he walked in off the street and caught a manager in his office twice in a row, he fired him.
Some people are more efficient in some pairings or groups more than others. Some work quality can suffer nonquantifiable parameters. Some work solutions are achieved by coworkers brainstorming in the moment.
Different people need different impetus to achieve their best work. The best way to cipher out the right buttons is to know and observe a person in real time, in real life.
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Bullshit.
I lived in a LEAN environment, ruled by the God of Sigma Six. We fucking counted hand motions. A decent size medical lab is a business thar revolves around production. A flow of information that constitutes 70% of the medical decisions in a typical patient's chart.
That information flow must continue, without abate, no matter what the circumstances and it must continue efficiently. Whether it be adverse weather such as a hurricane, staffing issues or somebody putting a bullet through the goddamn window.
Because somewhere there's a gutshot OB headed to surgery, a kid with a hot appendix, a drunk screaming from pancreatitis or an oncologist breathing down the path's neck who's casting a grim eye at the histo tech.
All the numbers are wonderful and I could look at production literally broken down to the working minute. But numbers do not tell everything. Sam Walton believed in MBWA (management by walking around) and if he walked in off the street and caught a manager in his office twice in a row, he fired him.
Some people are more efficient in some pairings or groups more than others. Some work quality can suffer nonquantifiable parameters. Some work solutions are achieved by coworkers brainstorming in the moment.
Different people need different impetus to achieve their best work. The best way to cipher out the right buttons is to know and observe a person in real time, in real life.
Not every job is a medical lab. None of what you're describing has much bearing on anything I do. Matter of fact, working remotely is heaps more efficient than anything done in-person.
Prior to Figma, asset creation was a linear process: get the images from the photo team or the illustrator or whatever, get it over to the designer who's also waiting on copy, then over to the CD. Everyone works in a fucking silo and no one knows where anything is. Now everybody works together in real time, including the CD. People have conversations while everyone's doing their part looking at the same layout. No one's upstream or downstream. And now you have fun, crazy shit going on like photographers weighing in on design options because they're telling you in real time what the situation is and what layout modules would better fit the subject. CDs telling the print folks which stock to use without a test because the illustrator just finalized the palette.
This is something that cannot be done in person. What are people going to do, crowd around one screen like it's 90s desktop publishing? Ideate in a huddle room with one sorry asshole making halfass mockups on a laptop while everyone else thinks shit up? The only way to do it is for everyone to look at their own screen with their own keyboard and mouse/stylus. Which is exactly what you have while working remotely.
I've done thousands of jobs in this way. It's not even close which is better for both quality and efficiency.
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@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
@Jolly said in Work from home - forever.:
You have enough problems with accountability.
No, you don't. For a shitload and ever-increasing number of tasks, the "accountability" is literally both real-time and scheduled. Any manager who doesn't understand this has a skills issue.
That said, entirely depends on the job, doesn't it? LD brings up some good points about federal workers, and I tend to agree.
I think there are 3 categories, personally: jobs in which WFH is impossible, jobs in which it's possible but a bad idea, and jobs in which it's not only possible but a good idea.
The problem's in those last 2 groups. Out-of-touch managers get them confused, as do young kids who aren't yet conscientious enough.
Bullshit.
I lived in a LEAN environment, ruled by the God of Sigma Six. We fucking counted hand motions. A decent size medical lab is a business thar revolves around production. A flow of information that constitutes 70% of the medical decisions in a typical patient's chart.
That information flow must continue, without abate, no matter what the circumstances and it must continue efficiently. Whether it be adverse weather such as a hurricane, staffing issues or somebody putting a bullet through the goddamn window.
Because somewhere there's a gutshot OB headed to surgery, a kid with a hot appendix, a drunk screaming from pancreatitis or an oncologist breathing down the path's neck who's casting a grim eye at the histo tech.
All the numbers are wonderful and I could look at production literally broken down to the working minute. But numbers do not tell everything. Sam Walton believed in MBWA (management by walking around) and if he walked in off the street and caught a manager in his office twice in a row, he fired him.
Some people are more efficient in some pairings or groups more than others. Some work quality can suffer nonquantifiable parameters. Some work solutions are achieved by coworkers brainstorming in the moment.
Different people need different impetus to achieve their best work. The best way to cipher out the right buttons is to know and observe a person in real time, in real life.
Not every job is a medical lab. None of what you're describing has much bearing on anything I do. Matter of fact, working remotely is heaps more efficient than anything done in-person.
Prior to Figma, asset creation was a linear process: get the images from the photo team or the illustrator or whatever, get it over to the designer who's also waiting on copy, then over to the CD. Everyone works in a fucking silo and no one knows where anything is. Now everybody works together in real time, including the CD. People have conversations while everyone's doing their part looking at the same layout. No one's upstream or downstream. And now you have fun, crazy shit going on like photographers weighing in on design options because they're telling you in real time what the situation is and what layout modules would better fit the subject. CDs telling the print folks which stock to use without a test because the illustrator just finalized the palette.
This is something that cannot be done in person. What are people going to do, crowd around one screen like it's 90s desktop publishing? Ideate in a huddle room with one sorry asshole making halfass mockups on a laptop while everyone else thinks shit up? The only way to do it is for everyone to look at their own screen with their own keyboard and mouse/stylus. Which is exactly what you have while working remotely.
I've done thousands of jobs in this way. It's not even close which is better for both quality and efficiency.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Work from home - forever.:
Ideate
Jesus.
Not every job is a medical lab.
You definitely want those guys working from home. The temptation to snort chemicals would almost certainly become overwhelming. I have enough trouble resisting the lure of cleaning fluid as it is.
