The Ukraine war thread
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Back to the February 23, 2022 line and close the book on that one. Trump is going to make quick work of the negotiations and everybody's going to give a bit (or a lot.) It's a pointless war. It did isolate Russia and hurt it's economy for a long time to come and it strenthened NATO so that all turned out good but it cost a lot of money and a lot of lives. As to Ukraine in NATO, probably not.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Not too long ago, Putin said that this is a declaration of war by the US.
WhatWho changed POTATUS' mind?Why now?
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Not too long ago, Putin said that this is a declaration of war by the US.
WhatWho changed POTATUS' mind?Why now?
@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Not too long ago, Putin said that this is a declaration of war by the US.
WhatWho changed POTATUS' mind?Why now?
Notice that this is after Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump met? Think they had an agreement?
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@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Not too long ago, Putin said that this is a declaration of war by the US.
WhatWho changed POTATUS' mind?Why now?
Notice that this is after Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump met? Think they had an agreement?
@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Notice that this is after Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump met?
When WWIII erupts, they can blame President-Elect Trump?
After all, if/when it happens, it'll probably be on Trump's watch. I've been assured that's how it works since Sept 11, 2001.
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@Jolly said in The Ukraine war thread:
Notice that this is after Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump met?
When WWIII erupts, they can blame President-Elect Trump?
After all, if/when it happens, it'll probably be on Trump's watch. I've been assured that's how it works since Sept 11, 2001.
@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
When WWIII erupts, they can blame President-Elect Trump?
No. It's all on Putin's legacy. 100%
Until now Ukrainians only disliked Russians. They now hate them. Entirely Putin's doing. The pending armistice better be good because if it isn't, the Ukrainians will make the Provo IRA look like Boy Scouts.
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A long but very interesting piece on recent military and political events. The analysis on how European diplomacy is functioning is insightful.
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Angela, forgive me...
Putin never lies.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/11/28/angela-forgive-me-putin-denies-intentionally-scaring-merkel-with-dog-a87164 -
Naval drone downs Russian helicopter:
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@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
Wow....
Suicide drones? WTF are suicide drones? It’s a guided missile….
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Russia’s Imperial Mindset: Understanding The Roots Of The Ukraine War
Much of the discussion is tied up in American domestic politics, as it trails the last presidential election. Indeed, this war should have never happened, and whatever “Russia explainers” might say going forward, there should be no doubt that the horrendous cost in Ukrainian and Russian lives is squarely on Vladimir Putin and his enablers in the Kremlin.
What Putin Wants in Ukraine
But taking a principled stance will not move the needle toward a durable armistice. In fact, by all indications, Moscow is not interested in anything short of an all-out surrender by Kyiv, including the foreclosure of any prospects for Ukraine’s membership in NATO, the de facto disbandment of the Ukrainian armed forces, and consigning Ukraine into the Russian sphere of influence. Putin has no real incentive to negotiate in good faith because he believes that at this stage, he is winning, and unfortunately, he is right.
For three years, the US and Europe prioritized escalation management that left Ukraine with no clear path forward to an equitable negotiation for a lasting peace, or at the very least, an enduring armistice with Russia.
Today, Putin continues to signal that there is no deal he would accept that would not be tantamount to a victory for Russia because he believes he can defeat Ukraine at an acceptable cost, and thus deliver a devastating blow to US interests across the globe, undermining the system the United States and its democratic allies put in place post-Cold War. For three years of this war the West has offered no strategy for victory, while the horrendous attrition on the battlefield, combined with the mass flight of civilians from the front, has left Ukraine with roughly one-fourth of the population of the Russian Federation.
To appreciate the scope of the bloodletting and the attendant emigration from Ukraine, consider that on the day of its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991 Ukraine had some 52 million citizens, on the eve of Russia’s second invasion in 2022 the number was just under 40 million, while today there are somewhere between 27-30 million people left in the country. So, while much of the debate in Washington has centered around whether to continue to supply Ukraine with money, weapons, and munitions, the stark reality is that the country is beginning to run out of people.
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For three years, the US and Europe prioritized escalation management that left Ukraine with no clear path forward to an equitable negotiation for a lasting peace, or at the very least, an enduring armistice with Russia.
For a guy who placed all the blame on Putin a paragraph or two earlier, this sure seems like a backtrack.
