Zelensky Speaks in PA
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@Mik said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
is Pierre fighting for his country's very existence?
Not his country’s very interests but certainly his very own political interest.
Actually I would have a problem if any serving Canadian PM was being flown around any foreign country on anything other than his designated CAF aircraft.
In any event the question is moot.
Zelensky represents 38 million disenfranchised stakeholders in the upcoming US election. I too would be concerned if the victor of the next election would have no qualms appeasing the Kremlin in undermining my country’s sovereignty and right to exist as an independent nation state.
Contrary to what some people think Ukraine is not Kurdistan; an ethnic entity that merely exists as an aspiration that can be bartered and sold as a chattel of back room diplomacy.
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The U.S. is shouldering a ton of cost for Ukraine - this is a tired point, but isn't depleting Russia's military power cost effective for the U.S. in the long term? The two biggest potential adversaries we have are China and Russia. Don't our military expenditures go up if Russia wins?
Maybe there's an argument to be made about the unpredictability of a cornered adversary.
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The U.S. is shouldering a ton of cost for Ukraine - this is a tired point, but isn't depleting Russia's military power cost effective for the U.S. in the long term? The two biggest potential adversaries we have are China and Russia. Don't our military expenditures go up if Russia wins?
Maybe there's an argument to be made about the unpredictability of a cornered adversary.
@xenon said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
The U.S. is shouldering a ton of cost for Ukraine
Saw a paper that talked about the economic impact the "money to Ukraine" has had on local economies as actually the money is generally going to weapon manufacturing and the associated businesses.
(Yes, it is being spent on Ukraine, but the impact is in the US. But I guess that is the same with most arms sales.)
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@xenon said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
The U.S. is shouldering a ton of cost for Ukraine
Saw a paper that talked about the economic impact the "money to Ukraine" has had on local economies as actually the money is generally going to weapon manufacturing and the associated businesses.
(Yes, it is being spent on Ukraine, but the impact is in the US. But I guess that is the same with most arms sales.)
Subsidies in the form of government contracts to munitions manufacturers and service companies. Most technical assistance through USEXIM bank to developing countries is similar.
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Back to the original subject...
We know it's not Biden calling the shots nowadays (seen the latest videos?), but it's the same hyperpolitical Beltway approach. Lawfare, willing media manipulation, leaked hoaxes, selective DOJ harassment and prosecution...Now the use of a foreign leader traveling on the American dime, trying to influence a Presidential election.
It's all part and parcel of the same thing.
And it's rotten.
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Zelenskys comments in the New Yorker interview are a bit of a yawner to me. Probably more unsettling is allowing him to come to the US, and start signing bombs that will be used to kill people in a conflict that is not our own. Even more inappropriate to have US officials doing so.
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His visit seems normal to me. @xenon makes a good point about US interests in Ukraine beating up on Russia. Z's comments are also pretty accurate, sorry if that hurts feelings.
@89th said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
His visit seems normal to me. @xenon makes a good point about US interests in Ukraine beating up on Russia. Z's comments are also pretty accurate, sorry if that hurts feelings.
I would agree.
Zelenskyi understands the Russian mentality as it stands today. He has to, it’s a matter of national survival.
There are few Western countries that do understand the mentality driving Kremlin’s revanchist polity. One nation that does is Finland. Finland’s recent joining of NATO tells us volumes about the Kremlin’s mindset. We should all know take pause and heed what the Finns are saying and doing:
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I have no problem with funding Ukraine's efforts.
I have no problem with Zelensky coming here to ask the US to write another check.
My concern, since noted by Jon to be misplaced, was his giving political points to the Harris campaign, while, supposedly, on the taxpayer's dime.
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I have no problem with funding Ukraine's efforts.
I have no problem with Zelensky coming here to ask the US to write another check.
My concern, since noted by Jon to be misplaced, was his giving political points to the Harris campaign, while, supposedly, on the taxpayer's dime.
Under the present circumstances, Zelenskyi is doing nothing different than Churchill did in during his visit to the US in late 1940 and early 1941.
Don’t think for a moment that Churchill was not also a guest of the POTUS and made it clear to the American public that he did not support the America First Committee or the isolationist factions in the both the DNC and RNC in the then upcoming 1942 US presidential elections.
i agree it would be wholly inappropriate for the present day Canadian PM, British PM or President of Mexico to favour one ticket over another. But then none of the above are at war with a known adversary of the US and the NATO alliance.
Elbows up!
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It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
The Brad
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It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
That's evidently a risk he felt he had to take.
If it's true that he would shape crucial foreign policy on personal grudges, that's a great reason not to vote for Trump.
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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Under the present circumstances, Zelenskyi is doing nothing different than Churchill did in during his visit to the US in late 1940 and early 1941.
Don’t think for a moment that Churchill was not also a guest of the POTUS and made it clear to the American public that he did not support the America First Committee or the isolationist factions in the both the DNC and RNC in the then upcoming 1942 US presidential elections.
i agree it would be wholly inappropriate for the present day Canadian PM, British PM or President of Mexico to favour one ticket over another. But then none of the above are at war with a known adversary of the US and the NATO alliance.
@Renauda said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
Under the present circumstances, Zelenskyi is doing nothing different than Churchill did in during his visit to the US in late 1940 and early 1941.
Don’t think for a moment that Churchill was not also a guest of the POTUS and made it clear to the American public that he did not support the America First Committee or the isolationist factions in the both the DNC and RNC in the then upcoming 1942 US presidential elections.
i agree it would be wholly inappropriate for the present day Canadian PM, British PM or President of Mexico to favour one ticket over another. But then none of the above are at war with a known adversary of the US and the NATO alliance.
Agreed. Context is important.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
That's evidently a risk he felt he had to take.
If it's true that he would shape crucial foreign policy on personal grudges, that's a great reason not to vote for Trump.
@Mik said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
That's evidently a risk he felt he had to take.
If it's true that he would shape crucial foreign policy on personal grudges, that's a great reason not to vote for Trump.
Oh, the reasons to not vote Trump are many and strong. My problem is the alternative.
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@Mik said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
That's evidently a risk he felt he had to take.
If it's true that he would shape crucial foreign policy on personal grudges, that's a great reason not to vote for Trump.
Oh, the reasons to not vote Trump are many and strong. My problem is the alternative.
@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
@Mik said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
@LuFins-Dad said in Zelensky Speaks in PA:
It’s an incredibly foolish move on Zelenskyy’s part. There’s a 50/50 chance that guy is going to be President. A guy that is known to hold grudges…
That's evidently a risk he felt he had to take.
If it's true that he would shape crucial foreign policy on personal grudges, that's a great reason not to vote for Trump.
Oh, the reasons to not vote Trump are many and strong. My problem is the alternative.
Nuance in voting preferences? What, do you think you're better than everybody else? Mr hoity toity nuance with your ability to see "pros" and "cons" between two flawed candidates?
Sorry - but - when democracy is on the line, "nuance" is just another word for "Nazi".
