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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Meanwhile, at Harvard...

Meanwhile, at Harvard...

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

    Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
    #183

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

    Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

    Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

    Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

    Please love yourself.

    HoraceH jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

      Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

      Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

      HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #184

      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

      Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

      Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

      Yep. FIRE was always here doing the ACLU's job for it. Only now is FIRE a thing anybody is talking about.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG George K

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

        And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

        So, yeah, where's the line?

        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #185

        @George-K said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

        And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

        So, yeah, where's the line?

        The ‘on your front lawn’ part makes it with the intent to intimidate. “Death to Jews” on a sign in front of the synagogue will cross well established first amendment lines.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        JollyJ George KG 2 Replies Last reply
        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

          Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

          Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #186

          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

          I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          Aqua LetiferA HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

            Who do you want to decide where that line is?

            Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

            I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on last edited by
            #187

            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

            Who do you want to decide where that line is?

            Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

            I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

            Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

            Please love yourself.

            jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #188

              Jolly - I’m curious what you think, as someone who has repeatedly called for genocide against Gazans. Do you agree with FIRE here? Or do you envision some rule that allows such calls against some people but not others?

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #189

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                HoraceH Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #190

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                  You were happily giggling away at "bad free speech takes" recently. Such giggling was an entrenched mainstream center left perspective, before Oct 7, that people who talked about free speech were right wing wackos.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #191

                    Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                      I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                      Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                      This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                      HoraceH Offline
                      HoraceH Offline
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #192

                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                      I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                      Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                      This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                      The agreement you're noticing is around double standards and the practicalities of making them more fair.

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #193

                        If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                        At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #194

                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                          Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                          I can browse twitter, er X. That giggling about bad free speech takes an was entrenched mainstream center left meme, as they continued to marginalize anybody who sniffs of being on the right.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                            #195

                            You do that if you want. Just don’t try to pin it on me.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                              At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #196

                              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                              If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                              At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                              They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                Aqua Letifer
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #197

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                Please love yourself.

                                jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • HoraceH Horace

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                  At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                  They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #198

                                  @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                  At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                  They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                  They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  HoraceH CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
                                  • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                    Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                    I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                    Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                    This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                    Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                    In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                    In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                    #199

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                    Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                    I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                    Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                    This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                    Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                    In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                    In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                    But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    HoraceH Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                      @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                      At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                      They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                      They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #200

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                      At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                      They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                      They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                      Then you claimed that made everything clear and obvious and logically definitional, then I proposed four simple scenarios for speech, to allow you to apply the clear definitions, then you punted.

                                      Here they are again:

                                      1. Kill all Jews
                                      2. Kill all Jews on campus
                                      3. Kill all Jews in the campus Zionist club
                                      4. Kill Joe the Jew

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                        I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                        Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                        This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                        Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                        In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                        In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                        But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #201

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                        I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                        Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                        This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                        Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                        In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                        In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                        But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                        The question was posed as a thought experiment. The question was whether a literal call for genocide is allowable under university policy regarding harassment.

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                          I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                          Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                          This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                          Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                          In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                          In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                          But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #202

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                          I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                          Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                          This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                          Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                          In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                          In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                          But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                          It's not the words, it's the intent. If you can somehow prove to me that the mobs in MIT and Harvard were merely trying to express their opinion, and raise awareness about an important issue, then sure, fine. But they were doing a shitload more than that.

                                          At Harvard, they literally boxed in Jewish students and wouldn't let them leave. It's ridiculous to call this free speech.

                                          Please love yourself.

                                          jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
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