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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Meanwhile, at Harvard...

Meanwhile, at Harvard...

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  • George KG George K

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

    And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

    So, yeah, where's the line?

    HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #182

    @George-K said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

    And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

    So, yeah, where's the line?

    Somewhere after microaggressions, might be the most common denominator.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

      Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua LetiferA Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
      #183

      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

      Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

      Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

      Please love yourself.

      HoraceH jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

        Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

        Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

        HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #184

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

        Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

        Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

        Yep. FIRE was always here doing the ACLU's job for it. Only now is FIRE a thing anybody is talking about.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • George KG George K

          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

          And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

          So, yeah, where's the line?

          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #185

          @George-K said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

          And some will say that burning a cross on your front lawn is protected speech.

          So, yeah, where's the line?

          The ‘on your front lawn’ part makes it with the intent to intimidate. “Death to Jews” on a sign in front of the synagogue will cross well established first amendment lines.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          JollyJ George KG 2 Replies Last reply
          • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

            Who do you want to decide where that line is?

            Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

            Perhaps more importantly, who do you think will get to decide if we let it be drawn?

            Again, that's already happened, so we already know the answer to that question. In the past 20 years we've done and codified exactly the thing you say is at stake here. At universities, in online kangaroo courts, in every HR department in America. The answers to your questions are all behind you.

            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #186

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

            Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

            Who do you want to decide where that line is?

            Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

            I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            Aqua LetiferA HoraceH 2 Replies Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

              Who do you want to decide where that line is?

              Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

              I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua LetiferA Offline
              Aqua Letifer
              wrote on last edited by
              #187

              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

              Who do you want to decide where that line is?

              Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

              I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

              Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

              Please love yourself.

              jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #188

                Jolly - I’m curious what you think, as someone who has repeatedly called for genocide against Gazans. Do you agree with FIRE here? Or do you envision some rule that allows such calls against some people but not others?

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                  Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #189

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                  Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                  This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  HoraceH Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                    Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                    I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                    HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #190

                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                    Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                    Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                    Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                    I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                    You were happily giggling away at "bad free speech takes" recently. Such giggling was an entrenched mainstream center left perspective, before Oct 7, that people who talked about free speech were right wing wackos.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #191

                      Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                        I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                        Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                        This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #192

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                        Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                        Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                        I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                        Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                        This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                        The agreement you're noticing is around double standards and the practicalities of making them more fair.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #193

                          If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                          At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                            HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #194

                            @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                            Certainly not. Perhaps the people with the shitty 1st amendment that I posted takes just happened to be on the right.

                            I can browse twitter, er X. That giggling about bad free speech takes an was entrenched mainstream center left meme, as they continued to marginalize anybody who sniffs of being on the right.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                              #195

                              You do that if you want. Just don’t try to pin it on me.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #196

                                @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                  Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                  This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                  Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                  Aqua Letifer
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #197

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                  Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                  Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                  I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                  Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                  This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                  Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                  In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                  In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                  Please love yourself.

                                  jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Horace

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                    At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                    They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #198

                                    @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                    At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                    They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                    They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    HoraceH CopperC 2 Replies Last reply
                                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                      I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                      Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                      This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                      Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                      In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                      In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nycJ Offline
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                      #199

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                      Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                      Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                      I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                      Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                      This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                      Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                      In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                      In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                      But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      HoraceH Aqua LetiferA 2 Replies Last reply
                                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                        @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                        At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                        They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                        They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #200

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        If it were that I’d chime in. See Philip Lemoine’s comments which we discussed.

                                        At the end of the day, the university presidents communicated the view that is consistent with the first amendment. Speech is not per se harassment or bullying. It does in fact depend on context.

                                        They weren't asked about the first amendment, they were asked about university policy.

                                        They were asked about “harassment and bullying” policies in the viral clip.

                                        Then you claimed that made everything clear and obvious and logically definitional, then I proposed four simple scenarios for speech, to allow you to apply the clear definitions, then you punted.

                                        Here they are again:

                                        1. Kill all Jews
                                        2. Kill all Jews on campus
                                        3. Kill all Jews in the campus Zionist club
                                        4. Kill Joe the Jew

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                          I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                          Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                          This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                          Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                          In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                          In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                          But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #201

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          Some say that about people who say trans women are not women.

                                          Who do you want to decide where that line is?

                                          Okay how about we not pretend that this here is the line and we just crossed it. Were you so quick to cite FIRE during the Evergreen College shenanigans? Compelled speech laws?

                                          I didn’t have to, no one here was on the other side of the debate.

                                          Fair enough, but your framing of the issue here makes it sound as if this is your first introduction to the "who decides" problem. We already know who decides. They've been deciding for years now.

                                          This is just the first time I’ve seen the board coalesce around speech restrictions. I don’t believe it’s happened before.

                                          Gotcha. For me it's potentially different. This isn't some low-EQ sales guy who ignores a pronoun and gets fired for it.

                                          In some of these incidents, you have a group of people in which "raising awareness" is a fucking joke. Intimidating jews is obviously their goal, and they hide behind free speech and their numbers in order to threaten. That's no longer free speech.

                                          In other cases, sure. The "Free Palestine" stuff is silly but fine.

                                          But isn’t that really what we’re talking about here? The literal call for genocide everyone repeats was in Australia. Here it’s ’globalize the intifada’ and ‘from the river to the sea’.

                                          The question was posed as a thought experiment. The question was whether a literal call for genocide is allowable under university policy regarding harassment.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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