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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Meanwhile, at Harvard...

Meanwhile, at Harvard...

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    I also think the tweet misses the point entirely. Yeah sure okay, that's what the hearings are about, but the problem on the table right now, the one we are and should be focusing on, isn't adherence to university harassment policies.

    Seems like Representative Stefancik missed the point.

    Are you of the opinion that anti-semitism isn't a concern at these universities, and that university policy is what we should be focusing on?

    Of course not. Again, Lemoine’s point was rather specific. I even said it was a bit of a nitpick when I posted it.

    You’re right that it’s beside the point. But maybe Stefanik could have gotten to the point?

    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua LetiferA Offline
    Aqua Letifer
    wrote on last edited by
    #115

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

    I also think the tweet misses the point entirely. Yeah sure okay, that's what the hearings are about, but the problem on the table right now, the one we are and should be focusing on, isn't adherence to university harassment policies.

    Seems like Representative Stefancik missed the point.

    Are you of the opinion that anti-semitism isn't a concern at these universities, and that university policy is what we should be focusing on?

    Of course not. Again, Lemoine’s point was rather specific. I even said it was a bit of a nitpick when I posted it.

    You’re right that it’s beside the point. But maybe Stefanik could have gotten to the point?

    If this were another century maybe. I hope against but always expect our legislators to be this incompetent.

    Please love yourself.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #116

      The editors at National Review:

      https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/university-presidents-abhorrent-hypocrisy-on-anti-jewish-speech/

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        I also think the tweet misses the point entirely. Yeah sure okay, that's what the hearings are about, but the problem on the table right now, the one we are and should be focusing on, isn't adherence to university harassment policies.

        Seems like Representative Stefancik missed the point.

        Are you of the opinion that anti-semitism isn't a concern at these universities, and that university policy is what we should be focusing on?

        Of course not. Again, Lemoine’s point was rather specific. I even said it was a bit of a nitpick when I posted it.

        You’re right that it’s beside the point. But maybe Stefanik could have gotten to the point?

        HoraceH Offline
        HoraceH Offline
        Horace
        wrote on last edited by
        #117

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        @Aqua-Letifer said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

        I also think the tweet misses the point entirely. Yeah sure okay, that's what the hearings are about, but the problem on the table right now, the one we are and should be focusing on, isn't adherence to university harassment policies.

        Seems like Representative Stefancik missed the point.

        Are you of the opinion that anti-semitism isn't a concern at these universities, and that university policy is what we should be focusing on?

        Of course not. Again, Lemoine’s point was rather specific. I even said it was a bit of a nitpick when I posted it.

        You’re right that it’s beside the point. But maybe Stefanik could have gotten to the point?

        I don't know why the senator was so specific about the policy, but even a harassment / bullying policy could be violated by a call for the murder of a group of people one is part of.

        Education is extremely important.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • bachophileB Offline
          bachophileB Offline
          bachophile
          wrote on last edited by
          #118

          IMG_1745.jpeg

          Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
          • 89th8 Offline
            89th8 Offline
            89th
            wrote on last edited by
            #119

            I would've kept it simple and said there is free speech on these campuses, as hateful as the speech might be, and that the university only intervenes once it seems like the speech is converting to a sticks and stones phases, as opposed to just words and air.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • CopperC Copper

              The university presidents screwed up.

              They should have given the simple yes or no - 1 word.

              Why not? I think either way is legal and the fact that democrats now hate Jews is well known.

              They acted like a bunch of guilty teenagers.

              bachophileB Offline
              bachophileB Offline
              bachophile
              wrote on last edited by bachophile
              #120

              @Copper said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

              The university presidents screwed up.

              They should have given the simple yes or no - 1 word.

              Why not? I think either way is legal and the fact that democrats now hate Jews is well known.

              They acted like a bunch of guilty teenagers.

              well, it was a bit of a trick question, if you say yes, the next question is why wasnt anyone disciplined or expelled, if you say no, you sound like a fascist, so they tried to lawyer their way through by saying yes,but...(context blah blah blah)

              and only after the fact do you see how simply assinine that sounds. but it was a lose lose situation, because the fact stands that no one was disciplined, or certainly expelled, so that has to be defended as defending free speech.

              i really wonder if these presidents will keep their jobs, i understand there are lots of very angry board members at each school saying they humiliated themselves and the institutions they represent in front of the US Congress. not a pretty site.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • bachophileB bachophile

                IMG_1745.jpeg

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #121

                @bachophile said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                IMG_1745.jpeg

                Perfect.

                Please love yourself.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  FIRE President Greg Lukianoff with a principled take as you would expect.

                  George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #122

                  @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                  FIRE President Greg Lukianoff with a principled take as you would expect.

                  More from FIRE. A little less nuanced.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  HoraceH AxtremusA 2 Replies Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #123

                    I fear yesterday will become known as the day the right effectively signed off on hate-speech laws.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                    • LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins DadL Offline
                      LuFins Dad
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #124

                      Sorry, but this is all a result of decades worth of accepting and even promoting criminal harassment, intimidation, and extortion and calling it free speech, while punishing and belittling those that peacefully assemble and express themselves.

                      Harassment and intimidation is not a policy issue for Presidents and Chancellors to debate, it’s a policing issue.

                      The Brad

                      JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                        I fear yesterday will become known as the day the right effectively signed off on hate-speech laws.

                        HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #125

                        @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                        I fear yesterday will become known as the day the right effectively signed off on hate-speech laws.

                        Imagine all those both sides are equal posts whenever anybody on the right complains about free speech. Terrifying indeed.

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #126

                          Is burning a cross "free speech?"

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          jon-nycJ JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                          • 89th8 Offline
                            89th8 Offline
                            89th
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #127

                            I'm a bit extreme, but sure...burn the cross. Tell someone you support genocide. Free speech laws are meant to protect the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, not the easy stuff. I tell my kids whenever a sibling tells another one "You're a booty butt!" (a very common insult when the 5 year old tries to get the 3 year old to cry). I tell them they are just words. Air and sound. They don't hurt and to ignore it. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words cannot hurt me...

                            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG George K

                              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                              FIRE President Greg Lukianoff with a principled take as you would expect.

                              More from FIRE. A little less nuanced.

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #128

                              @George-K said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                              @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                              FIRE President Greg Lukianoff with a principled take as you would expect.

                              More from FIRE. A little less nuanced.

                              It's certainly true that whatever speech and thought policing power is accumulated due to this, will be abused by the problem glass wearing middle aged progressive females in charge of the institutions. Maybe it's been 4D chess all along. Introduce an authoritarian idea blatantly biased against one political tribe, then watch them embrace the weapon when they see a chance to turn it on the other side. It's completely rational. What would any of us choose, between an unprincipled weapon used against our side exclusively, or an unprincipled weapon applied to everybody? Look to the chimp fairness experiment, there's your answer.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 Offline
                                89th8 Offline
                                89th
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #129

                                BTW the Penn statement was a good one, although she could've gone the "all lives matter" route and said the call for genocide of ANY group is wrong. I wonder if they were scared in congress to agree as they'd risk Muslim protests at their school?

                                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                • 89th8 89th

                                  I'm a bit extreme, but sure...burn the cross. Tell someone you support genocide. Free speech laws are meant to protect the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, not the easy stuff. I tell my kids whenever a sibling tells another one "You're a booty butt!" (a very common insult when the 5 year old tries to get the 3 year old to cry). I tell them they are just words. Air and sound. They don't hurt and to ignore it. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words cannot hurt me...

                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #130

                                  @89th said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                  I'm a bit extreme, but sure...burn the cross. Tell someone you support genocide. Free speech laws are meant to protect the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, not the easy stuff. I tell my kids whenever a sibling tells another one "You're a booty butt!" (a very common insult when the 5 year old tries to get the 3 year old to cry). I tell them they are just words. Air and sound. They don't hurt and to ignore it. "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words cannot hurt me...

                                  I'm totally down with free speech absolutism, but as a practical matter, I like to consider what is possible, and the least bad options among them.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • 89th8 89th

                                    BTW the Penn statement was a good one, although she could've gone the "all lives matter" route and said the call for genocide of ANY group is wrong. I wonder if they were scared in congress to agree as they'd risk Muslim protests at their school?

                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #131

                                    @89th said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                    BTW the Penn statement was a good one, although she could've gone the "all lives matter" route and said the call for genocide of ANY group is wrong. I wonder if they were scared in congress to agree as they'd risk Muslim protests at their school?

                                    There may have been a followup question loaded up regarding the lack of sanctions handed out thus far.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG George K

                                      Is burning a cross "free speech?"

                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nycJ Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #132

                                      @George-K said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                      Is burning a cross "free speech?"

                                      Scotus ruled blanket bans are unconstitutional but can be banned if the intent to intimidate is shown.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Horace

                                        @89th said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        BTW the Penn statement was a good one, although she could've gone the "all lives matter" route and said the call for genocide of ANY group is wrong. I wonder if they were scared in congress to agree as they'd risk Muslim protests at their school?

                                        There may have been a followup question loaded up regarding the lack of sanctions handed out thus far.

                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nycJ Online
                                        jon-nyc
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #133

                                        @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                        There may have been a followup question loaded up regarding the lack of sanctions handed out thus far.

                                        Have there been any cases of explicit calls for exterminating the Jews on these campuses? I know there was in Australia, but given how I still hear the Aussie example thrown around I kind of assumed they haven’t had any cases closer to home.

                                        Only non-witches get due process.

                                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                        HoraceH George KG 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                          @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          There may have been a followup question loaded up regarding the lack of sanctions handed out thus far.

                                          Have there been any cases of explicit calls for exterminating the Jews on these campuses? I know there was in Australia, but given how I still hear the Aussie example thrown around I kind of assumed they haven’t had any cases closer to home.

                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          HoraceH Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #134

                                          @jon-nyc said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          @Horace said in Meanwhile, at Harvard...:

                                          There may have been a followup question loaded up regarding the lack of sanctions handed out thus far.

                                          Have there been any cases of explicit calls for exterminating the Jews on these campuses? I know there was in Australia, but given how I still hear the Aussie example thrown around I kind of assumed they haven’t had any cases closer to home.

                                          Maybe the time they caught "gas the jews" on video, was in Times Square rather than a campus. By certain framings, a few different catch phrases have been labeled genocidal, but that sort of language ambiguity will be where the bias will once again come into play, and once again against certain political tribes.

                                          Education is extremely important.

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