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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Debt Ceiling 2023

Debt Ceiling 2023

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #37

    IMG_1683.jpeg

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/spending-restraint-isnt-wacko-just-ask-sen-biden-debt-ceiling-budget-gop-reform-taxes-6cf038ec

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • AxtremusA Offline
      AxtremusA Offline
      Axtremus
      wrote on last edited by
      #38

      The 14th Amendment option:

      https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/biden-opens-door-debt-ceiling-solution-gop-wont-rcna83327

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #39

        @Axtremus

        I don't think that passes constitutional muster. Borrowing money is reserved for congress, and if the executive tries to do that unilaterally that has constitutional problems.

        Of course congress has passed all the laws that are requiring the current level of spending, so the executive unilaterally halting spending to prevent breaking the ceiling would have the same constitutional problem.

        I suspect the only truly constitutional methods for the executive branch to unilaterally navigate a debt ceiling crisis would be either minting the trillion dollar coins or issue premium bonds (bonds with above-market interest rates that will sell well above face value, since face value is what counts in the debt ceiling limit).

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • AxtremusA Offline
          AxtremusA Offline
          Axtremus
          wrote on last edited by
          #40

          https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/14/supreme-court-debt-limit-14th-amendment-00096784

          More discussion on the 14th Amendment. Some interesting stuff like whether the Supreme Court would want or touch it at all, whether anyone will buy bonds issued by the Executive Branch (but not authorized by the Legislative Branch), whether anyone will have standing to sue if such bonds are issued, especially if such bonds are sold only to the Federal Reserve.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • AxtremusA Offline
            AxtremusA Offline
            Axtremus
            wrote on last edited by
            #41

            https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-give-prime-time-address-debt-ceiling-deal/story?id=99787806

            Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • MikM Offline
              MikM Offline
              Mik
              wrote on last edited by
              #42

              Very presidential thing to do.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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              • AxtremusA Axtremus

                https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-give-prime-time-address-debt-ceiling-deal/story?id=99787806

                Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

                George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #43

                @Axtremus said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

                One of the provisions in the agreement is the cancellation of student debt forgiveness. Somewhere I read that that's a stand-alone bill.

                I wonder if he'll veto that.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                JonJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • CopperC Offline
                  CopperC Offline
                  Copper
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #44

                  I bet he wants more of your money.

                  And he wants more debt.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Offline
                    MikM Offline
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #45

                    Yep. He wants more money. He talks about taxing the wealthy but doesn't seem to understand the difference between net worth and income. That was a most partisan non-partisan speech.

                    Still, it was pretty good, and it was presidential.

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG George K

                      @Axtremus said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                      Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

                      One of the provisions in the agreement is the cancellation of student debt forgiveness. Somewhere I read that that's a stand-alone bill.

                      I wonder if he'll veto that.

                      JonJ Offline
                      JonJ Offline
                      Jon
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #46

                      @George-K said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                      @Axtremus said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                      Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

                      One of the provisions in the agreement is the cancellation of student debt forgiveness. Somewhere I read that that's a stand-alone bill.

                      I wonder if he'll veto that.

                      Nah, he’ll sign as is. He and McCarthy made the deal after all.

                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Offline
                        MikM Offline
                        Mik
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #47

                        Agreed, Jon. Despite his slightly confusing speech, the bipartisanship is encouraging.

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JonJ Jon

                          @George-K said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                          @Axtremus said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                          Biden to speak about the debt ceiling deal tonight at prime time (June 2, 2023, 7 PM Eastern).

                          One of the provisions in the agreement is the cancellation of student debt forgiveness. Somewhere I read that that's a stand-alone bill.

                          I wonder if he'll veto that.

                          Nah, he’ll sign as is. He and McCarthy made the deal after all.

                          George KG Offline
                          George KG Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #48

                          @Jon said in Debt Ceiling 2023:

                          Nah, he’ll sign as is. He and McCarthy made the deal after all.

                          Turley's article doesn't substantiate his comment about what KJP said.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #49

                            https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/26/house-passes-bill-blocking-student-debt-forgiveness.html

                            The Senate passed a bill on Thursday aimed at blocking President Joe Biden’s student debt forgiveness plan and ending the pause on federal student loan payments and interest.

                            The Republican-sponsored bill passed by a vote of 52-46 with three Democrats joining Republicans in support of the resolution. The White House vowed to veto the bill before it went before the House.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • JonJ Offline
                              JonJ Offline
                              Jon
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #50

                              This is better in the end, ending the program would moot the SCOTUS case. I’d rather SCOTUS end it so no president tries again some day.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • AxtremusA Offline
                                AxtremusA Offline
                                Axtremus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #51

                                Bernie's op-ed:

                                https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/02/bernie-sanders-debt-ceiling-bill

                                Bernie says he could not vote for the debt ceiling bill because he thinks the bill cut programs for the most vulnerable, and thinks that Biden should have invoked the 14th Amendment to resolve the issue instead.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JonJ Offline
                                  JonJ Offline
                                  Jon
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #52

                                  That seems on-brand.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Offline
                                    JollyJ Offline
                                    Jolly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #53

                                    If Biden vetoes the bill, I'd beat him about the political head and shoulders until he is bowed and bloody. And if one, repeat one Social Security check gets delayed, I'd pin it on him like the tail on the Democrat donkey.

                                    It would be a helluva losing issue.

                                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • AxtremusA Offline
                                      AxtremusA Offline
                                      Axtremus
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #54

                                      Aftermath:

                                      https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/07/house-conservatives-choke-floor-action-as-revenge-for-debt-deal-00100785

                                      House conservatives choke floor action as revenge for debt deal
                                      ...
                                      A band of roughly a dozen firebrands, mostly in the Trump-aligned Freedom Caucus, are now working to derail senior Republicans’ plans to pass even widely popular party priorities on the floor this week.
                                      ...

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #55

                                        Ain't that somethin'?

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • MikM Offline
                                          MikM Offline
                                          Mik
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #56

                                          Cutting off their nose to spite their face.

                                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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