30% national sales tax?
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I suppose it's not all bad to bring methods of taxation up for discussion, though the strategy of bringing this one to a vote is questionable.
@Horace said in 30% national sales tax?:
I suppose it's not all bad to bring methods of taxation up for discussion, though the strategy of bringing this one to a vote is questionable.
Bringing this up for a vote was one of the concessions McCarthy made to the MAGA crowd
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It's often said that if American were paid in cash by a person sitting at a table who first put their entire pay on the table and then took away SS, Medicare tax, federal tax, state tax, local tax, an average amount of sales taxes, property tax and any other taxes or taxes masquerading as fees...Well, there would be rioting in the streets.
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
It's often said that if American were paid in cash by a person sitting at a table who first put their entire pay on the table and then took away SS, Medicare tax, federal tax, state tax, local tax, an average amount of sales taxes, property tax and any other taxes or taxes masquerading as fees...Well, there would be rioting in the streets.
Gingrich back in the day used to talk about how most middle class Americans could tell you, sometimes to the penny, what their refund was or what they owed in April, but very few could tell you what their total tax was.
He added that if there were no withholding and Americans had to write monthly checks then government would become a mere shadow of its former self.
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@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
Tax everybody. Equally.
That way, everybody has skin in the game.
Well, you've captured the all important 1%-er vote.
Now, how do you get the rest?
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
Tax everybody. Equally.
That way, everybody has skin in the game.
Well, you've captured the all important 1%-er vote.
Now, how do you get the rest?
Franklin knew that once people knew they could vote themselves money, the Republic was doomed.
The solution to that is for everybody to pay taxes. When voting for this bridge, for this state university's request, for this national defense budget, the money needs to come out of every citizen in the city, in the state, in the country.
Maybe that's oversimplified, but the people need to decide what they need, based on the funds that everybody has had a part in generating . I think people would hold politicians more accountable for how their money is spent.
So, less money will be spent, but we'll have more to show for it
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Like most retirees we live off savings.
That money has already been taxed.
Replacing income tax with sales tax would tax my savings all over again.
Money already taxed would have to be exempt .
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I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
I was only joking
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@Copper Well, most people's 401k and IRA funds haven't been taxed, nor has social security.
But many seniors spend pretty much all of their income, so suddenly they'd be paying 30% in federal taxes.
@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Copper Well, most people's 401k and IRA funds haven't been taxed, nor has social security.
But many seniors spend pretty much all of their income, so suddenly they'd be paying 30% in federal taxes.
Above a certain income level (and it ain't much), you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Copper Well, most people's 401k and IRA funds haven't been taxed, nor has social security.
But many seniors spend pretty much all of their income, so suddenly they'd be paying 30% in federal taxes.
Above a certain income level (and it ain't much), you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
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@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Copper Well, most people's 401k and IRA funds haven't been taxed, nor has social security.
But many seniors spend pretty much all of their income, so suddenly they'd be paying 30% in federal taxes.
Above a certain income level (and it ain't much), you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
Isn't that taxed at 15%?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
That's where I disagree.
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
Isn't that taxed at 15%?
@George-K said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
you'll pay taxes on your Social Security payments.
Isn't that taxed at 15%?
I believe it still depends on what your total income is.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
That's where I disagree.
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
THat's just a bad bracket design. You don't need a flat tax to ensure that each marginal dollar of earnings results in a marginal increase in pay.
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@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
THat's just a bad bracket design. You don't need a flat tax to ensure that each marginal dollar of earnings results in a marginal increase in pay.
@jon-nyc said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
THat's just a bad bracket design. You don't need a flat tax to ensure that each marginal dollar of earnings results in a marginal increase in pay.
I think it impossible to design a bracket where there is no penalty for changing brackets.
Flat tax and be done with it. Or do a flat consumption tax, and be done with it. In voters and taxes, the word "progressive" means everybody is going to get fucked.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
That's where I disagree.
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better. If a person takes that second job, if a person starts a business, if a person works overtime, he knows that for every dollar he makes, he gets to keep x percentage.
Back when I used to work a crew, you could not make them work over 24 hours OT in a pay period. Throw a cat in bathwater, would not work. Almost every dime they made over 24 hours went to the Feds, until they got somewhere over 30 hours.
Asking people to bust their ass for free does not work.
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@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better.
Sounds like “beating will continue until morale improves.”
@Axtremus said in 30% national sales tax?:
@Jolly said in 30% national sales tax?:
I do agree that it impacts the poor more. But I also think it gives a huge incentive to do better.
Sounds like “beating will continue until morale improves.”
Wrong, as usual.
It means as that a person strives to do better, there is no bracket creep, no surprises. For every extra dollar they make, they will know exactly what their net will be.
That is a powerful and tangible goad to succeed.
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It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
I was only joking
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I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
From what I read there are “prebates”. Everybody gets $X dollars per month to cover the taxes that would be paid up to a certain expenditure level. I didn’t see the actual numbers, but the intent is that you aren’t effectively paying taxes until you reach middle class expenditures.
It’s a badly conceived publicity move, but there are elements that would close the loopholes used by a lot of wealthy people.
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
The Brad
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It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
It's funny, all those management courses told me that money wasn't a good motivator to make people succeed.
Of course, they were being run by people who had to pay the wages.
I once worked at a non-profit where the CEO actually presented this idea to us in an all-staff. But the manner in which he did so was just as amazing.
"I've been doing a lot of digging to learn how to better serve the rest of you, and based on the latest research from the Covey Leadership Center, it turns out that the rest of you are not actually motivated by money, but the mission of the organization you wish to serve!"
The rest of the meeting completely derailed when the entire staff fumbled terribly through how to say they care very much about their wages without getting fired.
Quite fucking obviously, not everyone makes enough to take the problem of money off the table.
That guy was a cunt.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 30% national sales tax?:
I actually agree that everybody should pay taxes. What isn't realistic is the idea that everybody should pay the same percentage.
From what I read there are “prebates”. Everybody gets $X dollars per month to cover the taxes that would be paid up to a certain expenditure level. I didn’t see the actual numbers, but the intent is that you aren’t effectively paying taxes until you reach middle class expenditures.
It’s a badly conceived publicity move, but there are elements that would close the loopholes used by a lot of wealthy people.
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
@LuFins-Dad said in 30% national sales tax?:
It would also close the loop on a lot of people that evade taxes through cash transactions. 10% cash discounts from contractors become a thing of the past…
How so? Instead of the motivation coming from the contractor who doesn’t want to pay income taxes it would come from the homeowner who doesn’t want to pay 30% extra.
You were warned.
