Twitter suspends journalists...
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 15:39 last edited by
It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.
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It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 15:43 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.
Somebody wrote that Twitter isn't an engineering problem, it's more of a political problem, even if it's not overtly partisan politics it's working with social issues. I'm not convinced that Elon is very good at handling those personal feeling type issues in the way that he has used engineering to solve some other really complex technical problems with his other companies. He's not very smooth when it comes to that stuff.
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It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 15:44 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
It definitely seems less political. It’s more the case, I think, that he thought it was much easier than it turned out to be.
Who else is out there trying to fix a social media platform from a user perspective?
I'm not saying he's successful or that he even cares about the outcome. But compared to who's out there fixing Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, well, c'mon.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 15:57 last edited by
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 17:13 last edited by
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 17:16 last edited by
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 17:26 last edited by jon-nyc
I’m thinking the Musk move on the airplane guy is having a Streisand effect, rather ironically like Twitter’s 36hr banning of the laptop story did 2 years ago.
Now the guy’s trending on FB, which has 10x the user base of Twitter.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 17:43 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I’m getting support for my take in unlikely places.
Or maybe they’re not unlikely, I just misjudged how well they’d adhere to principles.
Is Musk's policy unclear at this point? If so then I'm sure we all agree that he should be clear about it.
It seems nobody is, in principle, against moderating doxxers. So it is unclear which principle you doubted people would adhere to. There are several facile principles in play, such as "clarity in policy is good" and "changing policy for no good reason is bad". I am sure Musk could be doing better with both of those principles, but let's not pretend he is in the league of institutionalized biased or arbitrary moderating as the previous regime, which was your point. A point which neither Weiss nor Rufo are actually supporting.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:02 last edited by jon-nyc
Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
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I’m thinking the Musk move on the airplane guy is having a Streisand effect, rather ironically like Twitter’s 36hr banning of the laptop story did 2 years ago.
Now the guy’s trending on FB, which has 10x the user base of Twitter.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:14 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Twitter’s 36hr banning
The Post claims it was 8 days.
As does the Guardian.
As does Fox.
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Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:18 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
“New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.
Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.
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@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Well gee, I thought I was criticizing it as being arbitrary (a word Rufo also used) and capricious (seconded by Weiss) and ever-changing. But I guess I made a mistake in making a clarification post without first asking you what I think.
I’ll do better.
“New boss same as the old boss” is your point I am referring to.
Weiss and Rufo are saying “do better”, which of course we can all agree with.
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Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:30 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
Right and I clarified that to mean, and I quote, “arbitrary and capricious and ever-changing”.
In a binary judgement where moderation processes do or do not contain some amount of arbitrariness or capriciousness, I agree that the previous regime and the current regime are equal. That will remain a trivially true point forever regardless of what Musk does.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:35 last edited by
That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:41 last edited by
Twitter rules?
Work in progress. I think he's done some things right, some things wrong, but I still heartily agree about the doxxing policy.
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That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:42 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
That’s weak.
Imagine someone defending the ancien regime by saying “everybody’s biases affect their decision making so on that simple binary, new Twitter and old Twitter are the same.
I’m not sure you understood my point. I am saying that there are facile and trivially true ways to claim equality between the old and new regime. I am claiming that your equality is such a facile and trivial one. There are others, one of which you just presented. It argues against nothing I said.
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wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 18:57 last edited by
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
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I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:01 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
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@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:05 last edited by Horace@Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.
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@Horace said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
@jon-nyc said in Twitter suspends journalists...:
I don’t think you understood my point. Sometime when tribal people see a member of the ingroup being criticized they deflect it by saying “every body does it”.
Less tribal people, like Weiss and Rufo, are intellectually honest enough to give the criticism where it’s due.
Nobody has disagreed with their criticism nor with the labels of capricious or arbitrary per se. Where I disagreed was with your both sides are sameism. You are correct that both sides are sameisms are often tribally motivated.
I should note that I do disagree with the label of arbitrary in this case, as a defined policy with rationale clearly laid out is not arbitrary by definition. Capricious sure, inasmuch as it’s a change.
wrote on 16 Dec 2022, 19:19 last edited by@Horace it’s unclear to me whether he announced the new rule before he banned people who were following the rule that was in place until last night. It seems to have been at about the same time.
Just last month he actually pointed to the guy with the plane account being allowed on Twitter as evidence of his commitment to free speech.
