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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Texas shooting.

Texas shooting.

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  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #73

    True enough, but that does not mean we should not do what we can. Gun control is far more difficult with less chance of success.

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • markM mark

      Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

      Back in the 1970s we bitched and protested because they installed a chain link fence around our high school. It was meant to stop students from leaving school and crossing the road during the lunch hour to go to their cars and smoke. We were livid! We called it a prison, police state, etc.

      So, I don't take putting armed guards in the school lightly. Like I said the idea sickens me, but how else can we protect the schools?

      We know that trying to take the guns out of circulation is just not possible. Access to anything is possible to anyone willing to do whatever it takes to get something.

      It's like we have no other choice at this time to really protect the schools.

      It does nothing for workplaces, or public events and attractions.

      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
      #74

      @mark said in Texas shooting.:

      Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

      Back in the 1970s we bitched and protested because they installed a chain link fence around our high school. It was meant to stop students from leaving school and crossing the road during the lunch hour to go to their cars and smoke. We were livid! We called it a prison, police state, etc.

      So, I don't take putting armed guards in the school lightly. Like I said the idea sickens me, but how else can we protect the schools?

      We know that trying to take the guns out of circulation is just not possible. Access to anything is possible to anyone willing to do whatever it takes to get something.

      It's like we have no other choice at this time to really protect the schools.

      It does nothing for workplaces, or public events and attractions.

      It's a depressing thought, and I hate to think what it's going to do to children's view of the world.

      It seems to me that something is fundamentally broken, in the US particularly, with regard to people's views of firearms.

      I was only joking

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Away
        MikM Away
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by
        #75

        It's the willingness to use them to take life that's the problem.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
        • Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3C Offline
          Catseye3
          wrote on last edited by Catseye3
          #76

          Yeah, speaking as a pro-Second bun, I am coming ever closer to accepting that at the least we must amend the Second Amendment to address this. We sure as hell can't rely on the People to do anything. They're good at hand wringing and sending their thoughts n' prayers; that's about it.

          As others have said, this can't go on. We can't continue to pretend there's not a problem. Someone spoke of Constitutional rights; what about the Constitutional rights of the formerly alive, who had every reason to anticipate living out their lives, who are now dead by gunshot? Continuing to not address this terrible issue is immoral -- severely so.

          And every proposed solution has problems.

          Maybe a bipartisan Congressional committee to bat this around, see if they can work up a compromise -- something that both extreme positions can contemplate without losing their shit.

          I don't see any other solution.

          Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by
            #77

            Too many examples that people can see and understand. It's an achievable thing, it moves the country, and that is a heck of a lot of power to salivate over, if you're a hopeless, angry, and mentally ill young man. It only takes one out of tens of millions.

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #78

              I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

              Education is extremely important.

              Aqua LetiferA Catseye3C CopperC 3 Replies Last reply
              • HoraceH Horace

                I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #79

                @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                Since our answer has been fuck-all nothing, many of them are explicitly saying to do anything but that.

                Please love yourself.

                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Horace

                  I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3C Offline
                  Catseye3
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #80

                  @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                  I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                  Yeah, that's the thing. Both positions must stop with the line-in-the-sand bullshit and start thinking more cooperatively.

                  Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                    @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                    I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                    Since our answer has been fuck-all nothing, many of them are explicitly saying to do anything but that.

                    HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #81

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

                    @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                    I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                    Since our answer has been fuck-all nothing, many of them are explicitly saying to do anything but that.

                    Ok then, I'm not clear on the gun legislation introduced by the Dems and blocked by the GOP. I understand that such legislation exists, but I'm not clear on it. Probably a hundred things in a hundred different locations. I'm sure it's complicated. But I'm clear that those sorts of public debates are not very tenable politically for those opposing gun control, and become less tenable every time another one of these things happens. This is one of those things that could even trump the economy, at the voting booth, if someone was convinced their vote would contribute to more gun control to help end this stuff.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #82

                      The Right has offered. The Left has refused.

                      The Left has offered nothing.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Jolly

                        The Right has offered. The Left has refused.

                        The Left has offered nothing.

                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua Letifer
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #83

                        @Jolly said in Texas shooting.:

                        The Right has offered. The Left has refused.

                        To ban video games, yes I know. It's like they don't think Call of Duty caused all this.

                        Please love yourself.

                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                          I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                          Since our answer has been fuck-all nothing, many of them are explicitly saying to do anything but that.

                          Ok then, I'm not clear on the gun legislation introduced by the Dems and blocked by the GOP. I understand that such legislation exists, but I'm not clear on it. Probably a hundred things in a hundred different locations. I'm sure it's complicated. But I'm clear that those sorts of public debates are not very tenable politically for those opposing gun control, and become less tenable every time another one of these things happens. This is one of those things that could even trump the economy, at the voting booth, if someone was convinced their vote would contribute to more gun control to help end this stuff.

                          89th8 Offline
                          89th8 Offline
                          89th
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #84

                          @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Texas shooting.:

                          @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                          I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                          Since our answer has been fuck-all nothing, many of them are explicitly saying to do anything but that.

                          Ok then, I'm not clear on the gun legislation introduced by the Dems and blocked by the GOP. I understand that such legislation exists, but I'm not clear on it. Probably a hundred things in a hundred different locations. I'm sure it's complicated. But I'm clear that those sorts of public debates are not very tenable politically for those opposing gun control, and become less tenable every time another one of these things happens. This is one of those things that could even trump the economy, at the voting booth, if someone was convinced their vote would contribute to more gun control to help end this stuff.

                          Yeah I have often asked what specifically are they proposing and, more specifically, how would it have prevented the ~10 or so school shootings in the last decade. I'd love to know the actual implementation plan as I'd be fine with anything that is pragmatic across the spectrum.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • markM mark

                            Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

                            Back in the 1970s we bitched and protested because they installed a chain link fence around our high school. It was meant to stop students from leaving school and crossing the road during the lunch hour to go to their cars and smoke. We were livid! We called it a prison, police state, etc.

                            So, I don't take putting armed guards in the school lightly. Like I said the idea sickens me, but how else can we protect the schools?

                            We know that trying to take the guns out of circulation is just not possible. Access to anything is possible to anyone willing to do whatever it takes to get something.

                            It's like we have no other choice at this time to really protect the schools.

                            It does nothing for workplaces, or public events and attractions.

                            89th8 Offline
                            89th8 Offline
                            89th
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #85

                            @mark said in Texas shooting.:

                            Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

                            I believe this school had armed guards, who didn't shoot at the perp as he entered the school carrying a gun. At least that's what I read...I haven't verified that.

                            LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Horace

                              I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over when the Dems come out and say we have to do something about this.

                              CopperC Offline
                              CopperC Offline
                              Copper
                              wrote on last edited by Copper
                              #86

                              @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                              I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over

                              There have been as many proposals to help prevent school shootings as there are school districts.

                              Many of those proposals have probably saved lives.

                              Just about all of those proposals have involved the left and right working together to help make children safer.

                              Why keep screaming that the other side is demonic?

                              You can find a demon to scream about, but those idiots are not the mainstream.

                              If you don't know how to use Google to find these stories, ask Jolly to be your Google mommy.

                              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                              • 89th8 89th

                                @mark said in Texas shooting.:

                                Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

                                I believe this school had armed guards, who didn't shoot at the perp as he entered the school carrying a gun. At least that's what I read...I haven't verified that.

                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #87

                                @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                                @mark said in Texas shooting.:

                                Have we even considered locking down the schools with armed guards? As much as that idea sickens me, dead school children, sickens me more.

                                I believe this school had armed guards, who didn't shoot at the perp as he entered the school carrying a gun. At least that's what I read...I haven't verified that.

                                https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/25/texas-elementary-school-shooting-uvalde/

                                After shooting his grandmother, the gunman fled in her truck as she called police, Abbott said. He crashed near the school, about two minutes away from his grandmother’s home. Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said at the press conference that the shooter approached a back door of the school and was confronted by a school resource officer who "engaged him at that time" but "the subject was able to make it into the school." It's unclear whether the school officer and the gunman exchanged gunfire.

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • X Offline
                                  X Offline
                                  xenon
                                  wrote on last edited by xenon
                                  #88

                                  Mental illness laws wouldn’t have helped in this case either.

                                  It’s easy to say someone was mentally ill after doing something like this. But for every million weird, loner kids only 1 may actually do something like this.

                                  I don’t see how you preemptively pick them out.

                                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • HoraceH Offline
                                    HoraceH Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #89

                                    I'm pretty sure trying to predict who will do this, and intervening in their lives via government, is a Bad Idea.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • CopperC Copper

                                      @Horace said in Texas shooting.:

                                      I'm not clear on what gun regulations we're arguing over

                                      There have been as many proposals to help prevent school shootings as there are school districts.

                                      Many of those proposals have probably saved lives.

                                      Just about all of those proposals have involved the left and right working together to help make children safer.

                                      Why keep screaming that the other side is demonic?

                                      You can find a demon to scream about, but those idiots are not the mainstream.

                                      If you don't know how to use Google to find these stories, ask Jolly to be your Google mommy.

                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      HoraceH Offline
                                      Horace
                                      wrote on last edited by Horace
                                      #90

                                      @Copper said in Texas shooting.:

                                      If you don't know how to use Google to find these stories, ask Jolly to be your Google mommy.

                                      Well, this kid bought the weapons he used on his 18th birthday. I wouldn't want to be on the anti-regulation side of any discussion about whether such purchases should be regulated more. Unless you're interested in a political death on that hill.

                                      Education is extremely important.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • 89th8 Offline
                                        89th8 Offline
                                        89th
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #91

                                        Perhaps there should be different classes of guns. Similar to you needing a CDL to drive an 18-wheeler, maybe there could be stricter rules on who is allowed to get an AR-15 or other high powered or automatic weapons? For example, needing a more thorough background check, passing a gun handling test, and strict storage laws. Regardless of school shootings, I'd imagine those are pretty pragmatic ideas.

                                        Catseye3C JollyJ 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • 89th8 89th

                                          Perhaps there should be different classes of guns. Similar to you needing a CDL to drive an 18-wheeler, maybe there could be stricter rules on who is allowed to get an AR-15 or other high powered or automatic weapons? For example, needing a more thorough background check, passing a gun handling test, and strict storage laws. Regardless of school shootings, I'd imagine those are pretty pragmatic ideas.

                                          Catseye3C Offline
                                          Catseye3C Offline
                                          Catseye3
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #92

                                          @89th said in Texas shooting.:

                                          Perhaps there should be different classes of guns. Similar to you needing a CDL to drive an 18-wheeler, maybe there could be stricter rules on who is allowed to get an AR-15 or other high powered or automatic weapons? For example, needing a more thorough background check, passing a gun handling test, and strict storage laws. Regardless of school shootings, I'd imagine those are pretty pragmatic ideas.

                                          All of which would be ignored by the badguys. Like the gun advocates say, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. You think they care about freaking licenses?

                                          Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                          89th8 1 Reply Last reply
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