Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
2.8k Posts 28 Posters 286.3k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • George KG George K

    Imagine that, you invade a country, and are shocked when they push back.

    George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #217

    Bret Baier: "Did you order the attack on Russian oil depot?"

    Zelensky: "I'm sorry, I don't discuss strategic decisions I make."

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • CopperC Copper

      An attack on Moscow would do wonders for morale.

      See Jimmy Doolittle

      George KG Offline
      George KG Offline
      George K
      wrote on last edited by
      #218

      @Copper said in The Ukraine war thread:

      An attack on Moscow would do wonders for morale.

      See Jimmy Doolittle

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • CopperC Offline
        CopperC Offline
        Copper
        wrote on last edited by
        #219

        They are going to Moscow.

        11 hours, with tolls

        685e61c8-1d47-4fec-9156-3f6ec09bb843-image.png

        1 Reply Last reply
        • RenaudaR Offline
          RenaudaR Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on last edited by
          #220

          Worth reading:

          https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-invasion-military-predictions/629418/?fbclid=IwAR1Rs-ag5rcaaHLxehN_9QeW4v47Lmtp-8FPJ_PxjqgGNg2IvXYYmled158

          Elbows up!

          George KG 1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Offline
            MikM Offline
            Mik
            wrote on last edited by
            #221

            Yep. With twenty recent years of war under our belt, one would think we'd have a better perception of rival armies.

            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RenaudaR Renauda

              Worth reading:

              https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-invasion-military-predictions/629418/?fbclid=IwAR1Rs-ag5rcaaHLxehN_9QeW4v47Lmtp-8FPJ_PxjqgGNg2IvXYYmled158

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #222

              @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

              Worth reading:

              https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/russia-ukraine-invasion-military-predictions/629418/?fbclid=IwAR1Rs-ag5rcaaHLxehN_9QeW4v47Lmtp-8FPJ_PxjqgGNg2IvXYYmled158

              This sort of dovetails with the article that said that Russia was still fighting in World War II style.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #223

                War crimes.

                https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                RenaudaR George KG 2 Replies Last reply
                • MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by Mik
                  #224

                  This is an interesting way to look at it. What if Putin did not miscalculate all along, but the West misread his intentions?

                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stephens-what-if-putin-didn-t-miscalculate/ar-AAVMHsh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0d41292d515745b38f14675aa48e9f9b

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    This is an interesting way to look at it. What if Putin did not miscalculate all along, but the West misread his intentions?

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/stephens-what-if-putin-didn-t-miscalculate/ar-AAVMHsh?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0d41292d515745b38f14675aa48e9f9b

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #225

                    @Mik

                    Interesting but thin on credible supporting sources. Referring to David Knight Legg as an expert on energy alone undermines his argument.

                    Putin is a KGB hood not a calculating genius to try and pull off a heist worthy of a Bond villain as the oped suggests.

                    Sometimes an imperialist despot is just an imperialist despot. Nothing more.

                    Elbows up!

                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                    • RenaudaR Renauda

                      @Mik

                      Interesting but thin on credible supporting sources. Referring to David Knight Legg as an expert on energy alone undermines his argument.

                      Putin is a KGB hood not a calculating genius to try and pull off a heist worthy of a Bond villain as the oped suggests.

                      Sometimes an imperialist despot is just an imperialist despot. Nothing more.

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #226

                      @Renauda yeah. If southeastern Ukraine was his goal all the time, would he have committed all the personnel and materiel around Kiev?

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      MikM 1 Reply Last reply
                      • George KG George K

                        War crimes.

                        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #227

                        @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                        War crimes.

                        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

                        Wait! There’s more:

                        https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/2/almost-300-buried-in-mass-grave-in-bucha-near-kyiv-mayor

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • George KG George K

                          @Renauda yeah. If southeastern Ukraine was his goal all the time, would he have committed all the personnel and materiel around Kiev?

                          MikM Offline
                          MikM Offline
                          Mik
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #228

                          @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                          @Renauda yeah. If southeastern Ukraine was his goal all the time, would he have committed all the personnel and materiel around Kiev?

                          Depend what he wants you to think.

                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • George KG George K

                            War crimes.

                            https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60949791

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by George K
                            #229

                            @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                            War crimes.

                            Watch the entire horrific 1 minute video.

                            Later in the thread there are ghastly pictures of bodies, bound and hooded. And one, put into what looks like a storm drain.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • MikM Offline
                              MikM Offline
                              Mik
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #230

                              Cementing hatred for generations.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • George KG Offline
                                George KG Offline
                                George K
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #231

                                More war crimes: torture.

                                And, of course, Russia denies:

                                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #232

                                  Wow. Zalensky pills no punches.

                                  And names names - Singling out Merkel and Sarkozy for blocking the path to NATO membership 14 years ago.

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • KlausK Online
                                    KlausK Online
                                    Klaus
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #233

                                    Well, he is right about that.

                                    My rants about Merkel are well-documented here 🙂 But most Germans still believe she was a good chancellor. We are still in denial about a large number of issues.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by George K
                                      #234

                                      Is Russia running out of equipment and parts?

                                      =-=-=-=-=-=-=

                                      Is Russia’s military running out of the equipment, spare parts and supplies necessary to maintain their war in Ukraine? Some reports say so, suggesting it’s because the parts are made in Ukrainian factories.

                                      Vladimir Putin is said to be running out of missiles, tanks and aircraft, because the parts they rely on are made in Ukraine.

                                      The engines of Russian military helicopters and key components for warships, cruise missiles and the majority of the nation’s fighter jets are all made in Ukrainian factories, the Telegraph reports.

                                      The factories, which also produce parts for tanks and ground to air missiles, no longer supply Mr Putin’s army.

                                      I’ve got to take this report with several grains of salt, because I assume those same factories must have stopped supplying Russia with spare parts after the seizure of Crimea and invasion of Donbas back in March of 2014. Are we to believe that Russia has failed to find alternate manufacturing sources for key military equipment for eight years? Russia’s invasion has displayed multiple levels of manifest incompetence, but it’s hard to believe they would be that incompetent for that long. (Now, could spare parts not exist due to massive corruption? That seems plausible, but it’s not the kind of thing you can count on your opponent suffering from.)

                                      The army is also understood to be running low on arms following five weeks of sustained bombardment of Ukrainian cities.

                                      This, on the other hand, seems quite plausible, given the well-documented logistical difficulties, and the furious rate at which Russian forces expended munitions during the initial assault.

                                      The T-72 battle tank is one of the Russian army’s main armoured vehicles but, parts for it are understood to be manufactured in Izyum, an eastern Ukrainian city that Mr Putin’s forces have failed to capture.

                                      The T-72 has been around since 1969. I can believe some of the high tech components for the most modern variants are in short supply, but surely they’ve have multiple source for the vast majority of mechanical parts for a long time now. And even if not, they built some 25,000 of the things, so I can’t imagine they don’t have enough mothballed tanks to provide spares, though it’s going to take time to get cannibalized parts out to field repair centers. (I’m assuming Russia has some sort of field repair capabilities, and I know Russian tank recovery vehicles were spotted on trains en-route to the theater before the war began.)

                                      Open-source intelligence estimates suggest that Russia has lost at least 2,000 tanks and armoured vehicles, although true figures are suspected to be higher.

                                      This I just flat out don’t believe. And indeed, when you go to what appears to be their primary source, they’re including a whole lot of trucks in that list, which aren’t counted as “armored vehicles.” The lesson here is “don’t believe anything that sounds too good to be true” and “always check the primary sources.”

                                      Speaking of primary sources, that Oryx blog list does look pretty useful, though the nature of the methodology (adding up all pictures of destroyed equipment) is certainly suspect to manipulation.

                                      Their summary line for Russian equipment losses as of this post “Russia – 2360, of which: destroyed: 1190, damaged: 41, abandoned: 232, captured: 897.”...

                                      And confidently declare “Oh, those are two destroyed 120mm 2B11/2S12 heavy mortars!” That’s some #DavesCarIDService level obsession there…)

                                      Keep in mind that Russia only had some 2,500 tanks assigned to active units at the start of the war (though other estimates are considerably higher. But given well-documented Russian maintenance problems, I can well believe several units have sustained losses in excess of that necessary to impair combat effectiveness.

                                      Keep in mind that the Soviet Union lost 83,500 tanks between 1941 and 1945 in World War II. Of course, that was a much broader theater, using much more widely-produced, low-tech tanks. Hell, two-way radios didn’t become standard Soviet equipment until 1944.

                                      For high tech munitions like smart bombs and guided missiles, I can well believe that Russia is running low on stock that can’t easily be replenished under the current sanctions regime. And we see ample evidence that field resupply has been negatively impacted by severe logistical difficulties. But “T-72s lack spare parts because the original factory was in Ukraine” doesn’t pass the smell test.

                                      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

                                      As of this AM, the blog that he cites claims 415 tanks lost.

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • CopperC Offline
                                        CopperC Offline
                                        Copper
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #235

                                        Hillary Clinton says 'More' can be done to hurt Putin, help Ukraine: 'Double down'

                                        Clinton said the U.S. must 'do everything we can' to punish Vladimir Putin

                                        Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton praised the job that President Biden has done in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, while asserting that there is more that the U.S. should be doing to make a difference in the region.

                                        In an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press," Clinton said that the U.S. is "looking at this with our eyes wide open," and seeing the threat that Russian President Vladimir Putin poses not just to Ukraine but to "Europe, to democracy, and to global stability." Still, she claimed that the sanctions imposed and assistance given to Ukraine so far are not enough.

                                        She is preparing. It is still her turn.

                                        039d48c3-c640-4583-9b1b-6c32db81f9c7-image.png

                                        https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-more-can-be-done-to-hurt-putin-help-ukraine-we-have-to-double-down

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                          Aqua Letifer
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #236

                                          https://www.ondrejvachek.com/stories/the-futile-war

                                          Please love yourself.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups