Spying?

xenon · 10 Jul 2021, 00:02

Also - didn't both the Trump and Obama DOJ's surveil journalists? Philosophically, isn't this alleged Tucker incident the same thing?

We just don't care about privacy. This isn't enough to change any meaningful number of opinions on the matter.

And the government isn't in the business of relinquishing power - so nothing's gonna happen here.

George K · 10 Jul 2021, 00:16

@catseye3 said in Spying?:

Only 32 percent of Americans can name all 3 branches of government. Only 57% know that Thomas Jefferson was the main author of the Declaration of Independence.

Being an asshole or a blowhard doesn't remove your rights and protections.

Neither does being an ignoranus.

(that wasn't a typo)

George K · 10 Jul 2021, 00:09

@xenon said in Spying?:

didn't both the Trump and Obama DOJ's surveil journalists

I think so.

James Rosen had his phones tapped, as did his MOTHER.

I'm not aware, at the moment of the Trump administration doing it, but you're probably right.

The fact that Trump did it, or Obama did it doesn't make it right.

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.

Or is it?

Doctor Phibes · 7 Oct 2021, 00:08

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

And to be h0nest, as a non-citizen I care less about the distinction between American and everybody else than most people here appear to. You're not that special.

Because the laws of a country which apply to its citizens should apply to everyone in the country...such as voting, etc?

What rights do UK citizens have that are not applicable to US citizens?

NHS? Can I get "free healthcare" in the UK if I break a leg or need a colon resection? Something tells me I can't.

So, don't give me the "special" stuff. Every country on the planet affords "special" benefits to its citizens. And...every country on the planet affords "special" rights to its citizens.

Want that "special" benefit?

Take the test, pass the test, take the oath.

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

I'm not that keen on the idea that I can be spied on due to an accident of birth. Not sure what the rules are, there, or whose rules they are for that matter.

xenon · 10 Jul 2021, 00:10

@george-k said in Spying?:

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.
Or is it?

Direct surveillance of journalists seems more invasive than mass hoovering of citizen communications through the NSA's security apparatus.

But the existence of the mass harvesting is more egregious.

Jolly · wrote on 10 Jul 2021, 00:10

@catseye3 said in Spying?:

@jolly said in Spying?:

There are some things that are above politics. If we can't agree on this, piss on the campfire and call the dogs, it's over.

It may not have anything to do with politics. Only 32 percent of Americans can name all 3 branches of government. Only 57% know that Thomas Jefferson was the main author of the Declaration of Independence.

Social media have richly expanded the capacity of people to be ornery, contentious, wayward, semi-hysterical, blissfully ignorant, if not downright stupid, and fixated on Cheetos.

Look, as far as not even a third of Americans being able to name the three branches of government, you're preaching to the choir. Instead of critical race theory, schools ought to teach the Constitution, the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, along with a healthy dose of general civics, K-12. Yes, every year, geared to grade level.

Horace · X xenon 10 Jul 2021, 00:09

@xenon said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.
Or is it?

Direct surveillance of journalists seems more invasive than mass hoovering of citizen communications through the NSA's security apparatus.

But the existence of the mass harvesting is more egregious.

lol "hoovering", I like it.

George K · 10 Jul 2021, 00:13

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

Doctor Phibes · 7 Oct 2021, 00:13

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

Jolly · 10 Jul 2021, 00:18

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

Short bus doesn't count...

Catseye3 · wrote on 10 Jul 2021, 00:16

@george-k I was addressing Jolly's assertion that if we can't agree on this, it's over. If, as is likely, a sufficiency of Americans don't even know what NSA is, we're hardly in shape to agree (or disagree) on anything having to do with the NSA. It's far more likely to be "over" over much more elementary issues.

And we're not there yet by a long shot.

Doctor Phibes · J Jolly 10 Jul 2021, 00:13

@jolly said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

Short bus doesn't count...

My goal is to put the colon back into the colony.

Aqua Letifer · wrote on 10 Jul 2021, 13:58

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

Those annotations look a little like Glenn Beck's infamous chalk-board.

Agreed.

Now, show me where they're wrong.

It's up to them to back up their own silly claims, not the other person to disprove them. Argument Construction 101.

Jolly · wrote on 10 Jul 2021, 14:59

Bullshit. 500 graduate level.

Loki · C Copper 9 Jul 2021, 21:22

@copper said in Spying?:

@loki said in Spying?:

All interesting convo but until Fox gets on board

They gave him millions of dollars worth of air time to tell the story

I believe that is a lot like being on board

So they are turning down a massive scoop for some other news source? So many leaps of faith one has to take to get there.

Doctor Phibes · wrote on 10 Jul 2021, 17:59

As George would say, it's all about the Benjamins.

George K · wrote on 12 Jul 2021, 17:09

Loki · wrote on 12 Jul 2021, 17:27

Isn’t there a way to interview the whistleblower to see what actions should be taken next? I know Congress has a history of fishing expeditions and man did we witness that for the past four years especially but it doesn’t make fishing expeditions right. There should be a threshold and it seems to me the whistleblower holds all the relevant cards right now.

Also a news organization who has actually seen Tucker’s emails would be helpful.

Copper · 12 Jul 2021, 19:01

Nice demand

Loki · wrote on 12 Jul 2021, 19:00

So reporters are trying to validate Carlson’s claims and provide interesting new details that would be relevant.

https://theweek.com/tucker-carlson/1002436/fox-news-host-tucker-carlson-seems-scandalized-reporters-are-investigating

Carlson is holding his cards close to what he is alleging. He’s got a humdinger of a case if he has the smoking gun. No one has seen it yet.

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Spying?