Spying?

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

Those annotations look a little like Glenn Beck's infamous chalk-board.

Agreed.

Now, show me where they're wrong.

[xenon]

I think others have mentioned it here. But we care about privacy now? That ship sailed a long time ago.

I was surprised when the Patriot Act went through. I was surprised at the breadth of the surveillance machine that had been built based on it (as Aqua noted with the Snowden stuff).

This - if true - is small, small completely predictable potatoes, given what we already knew.

No one cares. The time to care was a long time ago.

So many of the post 9-11 government decisions have worked out so poorly for us.

[George K]

@xenon said in Spying?:

No one cares. The time to care was a long time ago.

So we should stop.

Right, citizen?

[xenon]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@xenon said in Spying?:

No one cares. The time to care was a long time ago.

So we should stop.

Right, citizen?

I'd be fine with dismantling the department of homeland security as it exists.

I'm much more comfortable weighting privacy vs. security than the vast majority of the population. I think I'm an outlier on that.

EDIT: an interesting aspect of the Trump administration is that he called into question if the U.S. military and federal law enforcement are worthy of veneration (I think there was always a strain of that on the left). Based on the last 20 years... are they? I don't think the conversation has fully played out in the public sphere though.

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

Those annotations look a little like Glenn Beck's infamous chalk-board.

Agreed.

Now, show me where they're wrong.

We don't actually know what's going on, here. Least-ways, I don't.

It's quite possible that Tucker is right. It's also quite possible he's completely off-base.

And to be h0nest, as a non-citizen I care less about the distinction between American and everybody else than most people here appear to. You're not that special.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

And to be h0nest, as a non-citizen I care less about the distinction between American and everybody else than most people here appear to. You're not that special.

Because the laws of a country which apply to its citizens should apply to everyone in the country...such as voting, etc?

What rights do UK citizens have that are not applicable to US citizens?

NHS? Can I get "free healthcare" in the UK if I break a leg or need a colon resection? Something tells me I can't.

So, don't give me the "special" stuff. Every country on the planet affords "special" benefits to its citizens. And...every country on the planet affords "special" rights to its citizens.

Want that "special" benefit?

Take the test, pass the test, take the oath.

[Catseye3]

@jolly said in Spying?:

There are some things that are above politics. If we can't agree on this, piss on the campfire and call the dogs, it's over.

It may not have anything to do with politics. Only 32 percent of Americans can name all 3 branches of government. Only 57% know that Thomas Jefferson was the main author of the Declaration of Independence.

Social media have richly expanded the capacity of people to be ornery, contentious, wayward, semi-hysterical, blissfully ignorant, if not downright stupid, and fixated on Cheetos.

[xenon]

Also - didn't both the Trump and Obama DOJ's surveil journalists? Philosophically, isn't this alleged Tucker incident the same thing?

We just don't care about privacy. This isn't enough to change any meaningful number of opinions on the matter.

And the government isn't in the business of relinquishing power - so nothing's gonna happen here.

[George K]

@catseye3 said in Spying?:

Only 32 percent of Americans can name all 3 branches of government. Only 57% know that Thomas Jefferson was the main author of the Declaration of Independence.

Being an asshole or a blowhard doesn't remove your rights and protections.

Neither does being an ignoranus.

(that wasn't a typo)

[George K]

@xenon said in Spying?:

didn't both the Trump and Obama DOJ's surveil journalists

I think so.

James Rosen had his phones tapped, as did his MOTHER.

I'm not aware, at the moment of the Trump administration doing it, but you're probably right.

The fact that Trump did it, or Obama did it doesn't make it right.

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.

Or is it?

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

And to be h0nest, as a non-citizen I care less about the distinction between American and everybody else than most people here appear to. You're not that special.

Because the laws of a country which apply to its citizens should apply to everyone in the country...such as voting, etc?

What rights do UK citizens have that are not applicable to US citizens?

NHS? Can I get "free healthcare" in the UK if I break a leg or need a colon resection? Something tells me I can't.

So, don't give me the "special" stuff. Every country on the planet affords "special" benefits to its citizens. And...every country on the planet affords "special" rights to its citizens.

Want that "special" benefit?

Take the test, pass the test, take the oath.

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

I'm not that keen on the idea that I can be spied on due to an accident of birth. Not sure what the rules are, there, or whose rules they are for that matter.

[xenon]

@george-k said in Spying?:

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.
Or is it?

Direct surveillance of journalists seems more invasive than mass hoovering of citizen communications through the NSA's security apparatus.

But the existence of the mass harvesting is more egregious.

[Jolly]

@catseye3 said in Spying?:

@jolly said in Spying?:

There are some things that are above politics. If we can't agree on this, piss on the campfire and call the dogs, it's over.

It may not have anything to do with politics. Only 32 percent of Americans can name all 3 branches of government. Only 57% know that Thomas Jefferson was the main author of the Declaration of Independence.

Social media have richly expanded the capacity of people to be ornery, contentious, wayward, semi-hysterical, blissfully ignorant, if not downright stupid, and fixated on Cheetos.

Look, as far as not even a third of Americans being able to name the three branches of government, you're preaching to the choir. Instead of critical race theory, schools ought to teach the Constitution, the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers, along with a healthy dose of general civics, K-12. Yes, every year, geared to grade level.

[Horace]

@xenon said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

Now, that said, the surveillance of press under the previous administrations is different (I think) from the NSA harvesting emails.
Or is it?

Direct surveillance of journalists seems more invasive than mass hoovering of citizen communications through the NSA's security apparatus.

But the existence of the mass harvesting is more egregious.

lol "hoovering", I like it.

[George K]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

[Doctor Phibes]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

Short bus doesn't count...

[Catseye3]

@george-k I was addressing Jolly's assertion that if we can't agree on this, it's over. If, as is likely, a sufficiency of Americans don't even know what NSA is, we're hardly in shape to agree (or disagree) on anything having to do with the NSA. It's far more likely to be "over" over much more elementary issues.

And we're not there yet by a long shot.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

I have no wish to take the test, and I don't mind not voting. Them's the rules.

So, you have no desire to be "special," because "them's the rules."

I'm special enough already.

Short bus doesn't count...

My goal is to put the colon back into the colony.

[Aqua Letifer]

@george-k said in Spying?:

@doctor-phibes said in Spying?:

Those annotations look a little like Glenn Beck's infamous chalk-board.

Agreed.

Now, show me where they're wrong.

It's up to them to back up their own silly claims, not the other person to disprove them. Argument Construction 101.