Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?
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The third one shows their concern but it’s really the wrong scale to see it. They’re obviously worried about the slope of that line.
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Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
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A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
Apparently, stupidly putting yourself and those around you at greater risk makes you the subject of some fucking Frank Sinatra ballad because making your own decisions is such a greater virtue.
I get the autonomy argument, however, it’s rare when the person fails as a result of it to accept their decision making…. They typically beg, plead and expect that every available medical resource will save them. Worse, they make their loved ones cover for them by rationalizing their behavior while having to accept their death. I respect the folks that are actually accountable for their decisions.
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you. At the very least, being unvaccinated means you're more susceptible to getting infected, which if that happens, your body provides an incubator for further, more infectious or deadly mutations. What you do with your own body very much affects the rest of the world.
I'm even willing to hear someone out who understands that but disagrees about getting a vaccination. But for those who just ignore the above and say it doesn't matter? Eh, you're too stupid to listen to about anything, really.
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
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@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
@taiwan_girl said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
Next you’ll say that masks are effective against covid.
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@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
@taiwan_girl said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
But then it’s not autonomy. The founding principles of this country are specifically the opposite. The needs and wants of the many do not trump the rights of the individual. You don’t pick and choose…
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@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
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A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
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A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
I've been thinking (dangerous, I know)...
If the Delta variant confers immunity, it may be a blessing in disguise. Apparently, the variant has a very low mortality rate and symptoms can be compared to a bad cold or flu. Or the symptoms in many people are a lot less.
May be the best inoculation program for many people who won't take the jab...
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@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
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A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
I've been thinking (dangerous, I know)...
If the Delta variant confers immunity, it may be a blessing in disguise. Apparently, the variant has a very low mortality rate and symptoms can be compared to a bad cold or flu. Or the symptoms in many people are a lot less.
May be the best inoculation program for many people who won't take the jab...
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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UK has a mask mandate too.
I’d love to know the stats of the UK delta variant cases regarding fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
@jon-nyc said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
UK has a mask mandate too.
I’d love to know the stats of the UK delta variant cases regarding fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
According to my brother and friends over there, what isn't really being talked about much is that the majority of the new cases originated in areas with large Asian (i.e. Indian and Pakistani) populations. Also, because the UK government is trying to set up trade deals with India, they allowed a fair amount of travel from there.
Both my niece and nephew tested positive recently - they're teenagers, and not yet vaccinated. They also live in Birmingham, which has a large Asian population.
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@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
Yeah, but...In terms of who is vaccinated, us experienced folks are topping the stats. Louisiana is down the list for percentage of total population vaccinated (somewhere in the 47% range), but we're closing in on 70% for 65 and older.
What happened to trying to achieve herd immunity? Could this be the variant that does it?
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Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/panic-porn-dressed-science-exposing-truth-about-delta-variant
On June 18, Public Health England published its 16th report on "SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England," this time grouping the variants by Greek letters.
As you can see, the Delta variant has a 0.1% case fatality rate (CFR) out of 31,132 Delta sequence infections confirmed by investigators. That is the same rate as the flu and is much lower than the CFR for the ancestral strain or any of the other variants. And as we know, the CFR is always higher than the infection fatality rate (IFR), because many of the mildest and asymptomatic infections go undocumented, while the confirmed cases tend to have a bias toward those who are more evidently symptomatic.
In other words, Delta is literally the flu with a CFR identical to it. This is exactly what every respiratory pandemic has done through history: morphed into more transmissible and less virulent form that forces the other mutations out since you get that one. Nothing about masks, lockdowns, or experimental shots did this. To the extent this really is more transmissible, it's going to be less deadly, as is the case with the common cold. To the extent that there are areas below the herd immunity threshold (for example, in Scotland and the northwestern parts of the U.K.) they will likely get the Delta variant (until something else supplants it), but fatalities will continue to go down.
According to the above-mentioned report, the Delta variant represented more than 75% of all cases in the U.K. since mid-May. If it really was that deadly, it should have been wreaking havoc over the past few weeks.
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Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
The UK government is still treating it seriously - they pushed back the 'everything is fine' date, which wasn't very popular.
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Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
The UK government is still treating it seriously - they pushed back the 'everything is fine' date, which wasn't very popular.
@doctor-phibes said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Looking at the graphs at Our World in Data, the number of deaths per million in the UK has risen in the last month, indeed.
However, the CFR has fallen in the same timeframe, and the number of cases has skyrocketed.
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@doctor-phibes said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Looking at the graphs at Our World in Data, the number of deaths per million in the UK has risen in the last month, indeed.
However, the CFR has fallen in the same timeframe, and the number of cases has skyrocketed.
@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Looking at the graphs at Our World in Data, the number of deaths per million in the UK has risen in the last month, indeed.Yeah, I get that it's a little different this time, however the tone of the article you quoted was all too familiar. If there's one thing the last 18 months should have taught us, it's that things aren't always obvious.
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Meanwhile, CVD kills 2300 people/day in the U.S.
Perspective...
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@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Meanwhile, CVD kills 2300 people/day in the U.S.
Perspective...
Everybody has to die from something, so the number of deaths from major diseases is always going to be high. The issue with Covid is that it's mostly on top of everything else, and it does more than just kill unhealthy people.
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@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Okay, a few questions…
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The subject of the quoted statement is “this time”. It is a singular subject, so shouldn’t it be “there IS some actual data”? Yes, data is a plural, but is not the subject…
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If I am right, does that imply I might be racist?
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If I am wrong, does it indicate that I might be anti-racist?
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@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Okay, a few questions…
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The subject of the quoted statement is “this time”. It is a singular subject, so shouldn’t it be “there IS some actual data”? Yes, data is a plural, but is not the subject…
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If I am right, does that imply I might be racist?
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If I am wrong, does it indicate that I might be anti-racist?
@lufins-dad said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Okay, a few questions…
- The subject of the quoted statement is “this time”. It is a singular subject, so shouldn’t it be “there IS some actual data”? Yes, data is a plural, but is not the subject…
“This time, there is some actual pies?”
Does that work? Nope.
- If I am right, does that imply I might be racist?
As pointed out by the example, you are wrong. But you’re still a racist.
- If I am wrong, does it indicate that I might be anti-racist?
Being anti-racist is racist.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the-delta-variant.html
Number crunching the latest data from England, 92,029 cases were analyzed between early February and mid-June and were attributed to the delta variant.
Almost 82,500 of these total cases were recorded in people under 50 years old and a majority (53,822 cases) were found in unvaccinated individuals.
Among those cases in the unvaccinated cohort, the vast majority were in the under-50 age group (52,846 cases) and only 976 cases were in the over-50s.
Nonetheless, the data showed that there have been 117 deaths among people in England who had the delta variant with the majority being in the over-50 age group.
There have been eight fatalities among the under-50s with six of them in unvaccinated individuals and the other two in people who had received one dose.
