Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?
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@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
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A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
Apparently, stupidly putting yourself and those around you at greater risk makes you the subject of some fucking Frank Sinatra ballad because making your own decisions is such a greater virtue.
I get the autonomy argument, however, it’s rare when the person fails as a result of it to accept their decision making…. They typically beg, plead and expect that every available medical resource will save them. Worse, they make their loved ones cover for them by rationalizing their behavior while having to accept their death. I respect the folks that are actually accountable for their decisions.
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you. At the very least, being unvaccinated means you're more susceptible to getting infected, which if that happens, your body provides an incubator for further, more infectious or deadly mutations. What you do with your own body very much affects the rest of the world.
I'm even willing to hear someone out who understands that but disagrees about getting a vaccination. But for those who just ignore the above and say it doesn't matter? Eh, you're too stupid to listen to about anything, really.
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
What you do with your own body very much affects the rest of the world.
Not if you get an abortion.
That is just between you and the murderer.
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About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.
Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven’t been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.
The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.
The number of cases in Israel is relatively low by global standards. But new cases of Covid-19 rose to over 200 on Thursday from around 10 a day for most of June.
Israel is now reassessing its Covid-19 regulations after moving to open up its society and economy following multiple lockdowns last year.
“The entrance of the Delta variant has changed the transmission dynamics,” said Prof. Balicer, who is also the chief innovation officer for Israel’s largest health-management organization, Clalit.
Israeli health officials are optimistic that even if the variant does spread, evidence from countries such as the U.K. indicate the vaccine will prevent a large increase in severe illness and hospitalizations that plagued the country’s health system in previous outbreaks. Israel has only recorded five severe cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Balicer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell.
Those exempt from the mask requirement included children under seven, people with disabilities that prevent them from wearing a mask or two workers who work regularly together. The government had canceled the indoor mask requirement 10 days ago and dropped most other preventive measures after running one of the world’s fastest vaccination campaigns. About 80% of Israelis of age 16 and above have received two doses of the vaccine that was developed by Pfizer and German partner BioNTech SE.
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@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.
Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government. Children under 16, most of whom haven’t been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.
The government this week expanded its vaccination campaign to include all 12- to 15-year-olds after a jump in infections among schoolchildren in a town in central Israel. It has since quickly spread geographically and to other groups of the population.
The number of cases in Israel is relatively low by global standards. But new cases of Covid-19 rose to over 200 on Thursday from around 10 a day for most of June.
Israel is now reassessing its Covid-19 regulations after moving to open up its society and economy following multiple lockdowns last year.
“The entrance of the Delta variant has changed the transmission dynamics,” said Prof. Balicer, who is also the chief innovation officer for Israel’s largest health-management organization, Clalit.
Israeli health officials are optimistic that even if the variant does spread, evidence from countries such as the U.K. indicate the vaccine will prevent a large increase in severe illness and hospitalizations that plagued the country’s health system in previous outbreaks. Israel has only recorded five severe cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Balicer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell.
Those exempt from the mask requirement included children under seven, people with disabilities that prevent them from wearing a mask or two workers who work regularly together. The government had canceled the indoor mask requirement 10 days ago and dropped most other preventive measures after running one of the world’s fastest vaccination campaigns. About 80% of Israelis of age 16 and above have received two doses of the vaccine that was developed by Pfizer and German partner BioNTech SE.
Well fvck. Did they say how serious the cases were? Is this a case where they get it, but it's not serious?
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The third one shows their concern but it’s really the wrong scale to see it. They’re obviously worried about the slope of that line.
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Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
-
A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
Apparently, stupidly putting yourself and those around you at greater risk makes you the subject of some fucking Frank Sinatra ballad because making your own decisions is such a greater virtue.
I get the autonomy argument, however, it’s rare when the person fails as a result of it to accept their decision making…. They typically beg, plead and expect that every available medical resource will save them. Worse, they make their loved ones cover for them by rationalizing their behavior while having to accept their death. I respect the folks that are actually accountable for their decisions.
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you. At the very least, being unvaccinated means you're more susceptible to getting infected, which if that happens, your body provides an incubator for further, more infectious or deadly mutations. What you do with your own body very much affects the rest of the world.
I'm even willing to hear someone out who understands that but disagrees about getting a vaccination. But for those who just ignore the above and say it doesn't matter? Eh, you're too stupid to listen to about anything, really.
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
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@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
@taiwan_girl said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
Next you’ll say that masks are effective against covid.
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@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
@taiwan_girl said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@aqua-letifer said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
I get the autonomy argument, too. And usually there's no problem with that, except pandemics create a scenario in which what you do with your body directly affects everyone else around you.
Yup, sometimes the needs/wants of society are greater than the needs/wants of an individual person.
But then it’s not autonomy. The founding principles of this country are specifically the opposite. The needs and wants of the many do not trump the rights of the individual. You don’t pick and choose…
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@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
-
A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
-
A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
I've been thinking (dangerous, I know)...
If the Delta variant confers immunity, it may be a blessing in disguise. Apparently, the variant has a very low mortality rate and symptoms can be compared to a bad cold or flu. Or the symptoms in many people are a lot less.
May be the best inoculation program for many people who won't take the jab...
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@loki said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
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A lot of people have had COVID. Many will not get the vaccine, thinking their natural immunity is as good or better. They may well be right.
-
A certain subset of the population just ain't gonna get it. I suspect that number is 25-30%.
And when they get the Delta+ variant I feel really really bad for them. Pride goeth before the fall and it is so uncomfortable to watch when you see them thinking “if only a took the shot”.
It’s a game they are going to lose.
I've been thinking (dangerous, I know)...
If the Delta variant confers immunity, it may be a blessing in disguise. Apparently, the variant has a very low mortality rate and symptoms can be compared to a bad cold or flu. Or the symptoms in many people are a lot less.
May be the best inoculation program for many people who won't take the jab...
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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UK has a mask mandate too.
I’d love to know the stats of the UK delta variant cases regarding fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
@jon-nyc said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
UK has a mask mandate too.
I’d love to know the stats of the UK delta variant cases regarding fully vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
According to my brother and friends over there, what isn't really being talked about much is that the majority of the new cases originated in areas with large Asian (i.e. Indian and Pakistani) populations. Also, because the UK government is trying to set up trade deals with India, they allowed a fair amount of travel from there.
Both my niece and nephew tested positive recently - they're teenagers, and not yet vaccinated. They also live in Birmingham, which has a large Asian population.
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@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
@george-k said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
the variant has a very low mortality rate
Can't find it now...
Somewhere I read that though the overall mortality rate is low, it is very age-related. If you're, say, under 40, little to worry about. If you're (cough) more than 70, well...
Also, as @bachophile commented a while ago, in terms of impact on society, a more transmissible virus will be worse than a more lethal virus.
Yeah, but...In terms of who is vaccinated, us experienced folks are topping the stats. Louisiana is down the list for percentage of total population vaccinated (somewhere in the 47% range), but we're closing in on 70% for 65 and older.
What happened to trying to achieve herd immunity? Could this be the variant that does it?
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Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
@jolly said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Now, the $64 question(s)...
- Is it definitive that the Delta version has a lower mortality rate?
- Do antibodies to the Delta variant translate to the other COVID mutations?
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/panic-porn-dressed-science-exposing-truth-about-delta-variant
On June 18, Public Health England published its 16th report on "SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England," this time grouping the variants by Greek letters.
As you can see, the Delta variant has a 0.1% case fatality rate (CFR) out of 31,132 Delta sequence infections confirmed by investigators. That is the same rate as the flu and is much lower than the CFR for the ancestral strain or any of the other variants. And as we know, the CFR is always higher than the infection fatality rate (IFR), because many of the mildest and asymptomatic infections go undocumented, while the confirmed cases tend to have a bias toward those who are more evidently symptomatic.
In other words, Delta is literally the flu with a CFR identical to it. This is exactly what every respiratory pandemic has done through history: morphed into more transmissible and less virulent form that forces the other mutations out since you get that one. Nothing about masks, lockdowns, or experimental shots did this. To the extent this really is more transmissible, it's going to be less deadly, as is the case with the common cold. To the extent that there are areas below the herd immunity threshold (for example, in Scotland and the northwestern parts of the U.K.) they will likely get the Delta variant (until something else supplants it), but fatalities will continue to go down.
According to the above-mentioned report, the Delta variant represented more than 75% of all cases in the U.K. since mid-May. If it really was that deadly, it should have been wreaking havoc over the past few weeks.
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Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
The UK government is still treating it seriously - they pushed back the 'everything is fine' date, which wasn't very popular.
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Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
The UK government is still treating it seriously - they pushed back the 'everything is fine' date, which wasn't very popular.
@doctor-phibes said in Israel and the Second Coming of COVID-19?:
Let's hope they're right. I've seen enough articles saying 'this is just like the flu' to exercise a little caution and skepticism.
Exactly. The difference is that this time, there are some actual data.
Looking at the graphs at Our World in Data, the number of deaths per million in the UK has risen in the last month, indeed.
However, the CFR has fallen in the same timeframe, and the number of cases has skyrocketed.
