Guilty, guilty, guilty
-
Chauvin was guilty of something.
The other two big cases out there - I'm more sympathetic to the officers. Kimberly Potter who mistook her sidearm for a taser - as was clearly evidenced by 1) her use of "taser, taser, taser" to warn her partner and 2) the "shit, I shot him" which suggests that was not her intent. Even prosecutors have acknowledged that. It would be difficult under Minnesota law to even find her guilty of manslaughter.
I also feel for the officer in Chicago who shot the teen who had dropped a gun before turning around and being shot.
I really think that part of adulting classes in schools is how to react to police interactions -
- Acknowledge that you are cooperating.
- Move slowly while saying what you are doing.
Needless to say, we might want better trained law personnel and perhaps better screening of who becomes an officer - but imagine how challenging that will be now with the abuse that is being put upon a whole profession.
@kluurs said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The other two big cases out there - I'm more sympathetic to the officers. Kimberly Potter who mistook her sidearm for a taser - as was clearly evidenced by 1) her use of "taser, taser, taser" to warn her partner and 2) the "shit, I shot him" which suggests that was not her intent. Even prosecutors have acknowledged that. It would be difficult under Minnesota law to even find her guilty of manslaughter.
I am curious about that one too. What's the usual charge for killing someone by mistake, given that the killer entered into some sort of physical confrontation with the deceased just before the killing took place? (I.e., not the case of some one accidentally knocking a flower pot over from the balcony and killed a passer-by below, but of some one physically fighting/struggling with another person then unintentionally killed that other person as a result.)
-
I watched the entire video. It is quite clear for a full 4 minutes he has stopped moving. People are screaming he’s not responsive and the cops did nothing with the knee still on the neck.
4 minutes. Didn’t even check for a pulse. Seriously?
Watch the entire video. For sure there was a big struggle but the last 4 minutes the knee was on a non-responsive man’s neck.
If I were a juror I could never get around those 4 minutes.
Link to video
Minutes 17 to 21.
-
I watched the entire video. It is quite clear for a full 4 minutes he has stopped moving. People are screaming he’s not responsive and the cops did nothing with the knee still on the neck.
4 minutes. Didn’t even check for a pulse. Seriously?
Watch the entire video. For sure there was a big struggle but the last 4 minutes the knee was on a non-responsive man’s neck.
If I were a juror I could never get around those 4 minutes.
Link to video
Minutes 17 to 21.
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
I watched the entire video. It is quite clear for a full 4 minutes he has stopped moving. People are screaming he’s not responsive and the cops did nothing with the knee still on the neck.
4 minutes. Didn’t even check for a pulse. Seriously?
Watch the entire video. For sure there was a big struggle but the last 4 minutes the knee was on a non-responsive man’s neck.
If I were a juror I could never get around those 4 minutes.
Link to video
Minutes 17 to 21.
I agree with you, but I don't think I can watch the video.
-
@Loki I agree and have been pretty vocal about my condemnation. If you’re going to support police in general, then you can’t and shouldn’t try to explain away or condone such an egregious case of abuse. This guy needs to you away for 15-20 on manslaughter charges.
Unfortunately, he will ultimately win his appeal thanks to the fomenting of civil unrest by our public officials.
-
@Loki I agree and have been pretty vocal about my condemnation. If you’re going to support police in general, then you can’t and shouldn’t try to explain away or condone such an egregious case of abuse. This guy needs to you away for 15-20 on manslaughter charges.
Unfortunately, he will ultimately win his appeal thanks to the fomenting of civil unrest by our public officials.
@lufins-dad said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
he will ultimately win his appeal thanks to the fomenting of civil unrest by our public officials
And the judge's denial for a change of venue.
-
What I also don’t like is the near canonization of Floyd.
-
What I also don’t like is the near canonization of Floyd.
-
All three. I really thought they'd split the baby.
I'm not sure the justice system worked. I think the jurors simply knew what would happen if they did not go that way. Their lives were in jeopardy.
@mik said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
All three. I really thought they'd split the baby.
I'm not sure the justice system worked. I think the jurors simply knew what would happen if they did not go that way. Their lives were in jeopardy.
The justice system did not work at all.
- The venue was not changed.
- The jury was not sequestered. They heard every word Maxine said.
- Even Biden weighed in before the unsequestered jury came in.
- I thought guilty on all three was a bit much.
-
Even Barr quashed a plea deal where Chauvin agreed to go to prison for 10 years. It’s clear as day that Chauvin had his knee on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man. When the police not only don’t protect you from dying but stays on the neck for 4 minutes after he stops moving, it tells me you just never watched the video.
This is getting silly.
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
-
Even Barr quashed a plea deal where Chauvin agreed to go to prison for 10 years. It’s clear as day that Chauvin had his knee on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man. When the police not only don’t protect you from dying but stays on the neck for 4 minutes after he stops moving, it tells me you just never watched the video.
This is getting silly.
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
Good point. Had Floyd been of a different
colorrace, do you think that the cop would have behaved in the same way?@Loki said:
on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man
I'm not sure he was mentally ill, but the toxicology suggests that he was impaired/intoxicated.
-
It was amazing to watch how emotionally wrapped up (as people rejoiced in the streets, cried, etc) in something that has ZERO effect on their lives.
I was surprised he was found guilty on the 3rd degree murder, but maybe I misunderstood the criteria to convict on that one.
-
It was amazing to watch how emotionally wrapped up (as people rejoiced in the streets, cried, etc) in something that has ZERO effect on their lives.
I was surprised he was found guilty on the 3rd degree murder, but maybe I misunderstood the criteria to convict on that one.
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
ZERO effect on their lives.
I think it is the same effect as winning a super bowl.
You still have to go to work on Monday, but your team won the game.
And the opposing team (systemic racism with privilege) is a bunch of losers.
And the new color TV is nice too
-
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Even Barr quashed a plea deal where Chauvin agreed to go to prison for 10 years. It’s clear as day that Chauvin had his knee on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man. When the police not only don’t protect you from dying but stays on the neck for 4 minutes after he stops moving, it tells me you just never watched the video.
This is getting silly.
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
No, what you are seeing is cellphone video. Bodycam video has never been released to the public. I'd like to see what led up to the arrest and restraint.
I think the Murder 3 was adequate. Floyd was high enough that just the drugs in his system could have impacted his breathing. The cop overdid it, but I believe he was using an approved technique.
Unless you have dealt with people like Floyd...High and possibly mentally ill, you just haven't had a fun day. I've been attacked with a butter knife, had a nude woman run through my work place screaming, etc.
I tackled the naked woman and I had both knees on her, pinning her down when the security guard ran up and told me I couldn't do that. I told Richard, "She's all yours". Then I propped up on the counter and laughed my ass off, as that woman whipped Richard's ass all over the lab.
But beside whether the cop was guilty or not, and besides how you handle mentally ill people in a combative situation, the fact remains that what we witnessed was not a fair trial. At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
-
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
Even Barr quashed a plea deal where Chauvin agreed to go to prison for 10 years. It’s clear as day that Chauvin had his knee on the neck of an unresponsive mentally ill man. When the police not only don’t protect you from dying but stays on the neck for 4 minutes after he stops moving, it tells me you just never watched the video.
This is getting silly.
Now the overreach on “systemic racism”, and defund the police, that’s a worthy topic of debate.
No, what you are seeing is cellphone video. Bodycam video has never been released to the public. I'd like to see what led up to the arrest and restraint.
I think the Murder 3 was adequate. Floyd was high enough that just the drugs in his system could have impacted his breathing. The cop overdid it, but I believe he was using an approved technique.
Unless you have dealt with people like Floyd...High and possibly mentally ill, you just haven't had a fun day. I've been attacked with a butter knife, had a nude woman run through my work place screaming, etc.
I tackled the naked woman and I had both knees on her, pinning her down when the security guard ran up and told me I couldn't do that. I told Richard, "She's all yours". Then I propped up on the counter and laughed my ass off, as that woman whipped Richard's ass all over the lab.
But beside whether the cop was guilty or not, and besides how you handle mentally ill people in a combative situation, the fact remains that what we witnessed was not a fair trial. At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
-
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
@axtremus said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@jolly said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
At the end of the day, the system has to be vuewed as fair and just...Or we don 't have any Justice at all...
Today, for this case, you do not view it as “fair and just.” Had the case been decided another way, it would just be some other people who would not view it as “fair and just.” In any given day, there will always be some people who do not view the system as “fair and just.”
Ax, in this case it was pretty universally known that “cities everywhere would burn” if Chauvin was acquitted. Even people in congress said (and encouraged) that. I think it’s pretty objective to describe this trial was not exactly fair and just. Regardless of the verdict, the threat of the mob absolutely was felt in the courtroom.
-
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
-
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
@89th said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
@loki said in Guilty, guilty, guilty:
The video I posted is police body cam raw footage. Thus far no one here has commented on it after watching it.
The jury got it right.
I saw the raw footage months ago, which is what I based my opinion on that I only saw evidence supporting a 2nd degree manslaughter charge, not murder. In that view, the jury got it wrong. Everyone has an opinion.
Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
So what do you disagree with, reckless conduct or lack of concern for human life?
