French Government Says No to Virginity Test
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Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
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wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 19:43 last edited by
"Honor killing" . . . not the most fortuitous phrase ever coined.
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Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 19:53 last edited by@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
You don't know many Muslims, do you?
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wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 20:30 last edited by
I personally find the reasoning behind it morally and ethically abhorrent, and on a practical basis, pretty effin stupid. I assume that they are checking for the presence of an intact hymen? Young ladies can lose their hymen for many reasons other than sexual intercourse...
I'm not sure the ban will be very effective at ending the practice, however, and may even backfire. Wouldn't an intact or broken hymen be evident in a standard gynecological exam? Is France going to ban gynecological exams for Muslims now? Or are they going to ban Muslims from going into that particular medical practice?
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@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
You don't know many Muslims, do you?
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 21:38 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
You don't know many Muslims, do you?
I got to know several when I worked in Kuwait.
They don't think like you. This is shameful.
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@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Yes, let consenting adults take it or leave it
If the man insists and she refuses, that is a good indication that the wedding is probably a bad idea, but that is their business.
You don't know many Muslims, do you?
I got to know several when I worked in Kuwait.
They don't think like you. This is shameful.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 21:50 last edited by@copper said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
I got to know several when I worked in Kuwait.
They were probably closet
ChristiansJews. -
@jolly Failing a virginity test, whether the daughter is a virgin or not, is often used as the basis for an honor killing of her. Allowing the virginity test puts a young women at risk for murder at the hands of her own family. I would call that harm to society, and especially to the women. The tests can give false results, so even virgins are at risk.
I think about the fear a young woman would have, because within that culture, she knows all about honor killings. No wonder they try to flee.
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 22:58 last edited by@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly Failing a virginity test, whether the daughter is a virgin or not, is often used as the basis for an honor killing of her. Allowing the virginity test puts a young women at risk for murder at the hands of her own family. I would call that harm to society, and especially to the women. The tests can give false results, so even virgins are at risk.
I think about the fear a young woman would have, because within that culture, she knows all about honor killings. No wonder they try to flee.
Is honor killing against the law in France and how many occur each year?
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@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly Failing a virginity test, whether the daughter is a virgin or not, is often used as the basis for an honor killing of her. Allowing the virginity test puts a young women at risk for murder at the hands of her own family. I would call that harm to society, and especially to the women. The tests can give false results, so even virgins are at risk.
I think about the fear a young woman would have, because within that culture, she knows all about honor killings. No wonder they try to flee.
Is honor killing against the law in France and how many occur each year?
wrote on 3 Apr 2021, 23:06 last edited by Renauda 4 Mar 2021, 23:30My certain hunch is that premeditated First degree murder is indeed against the law in France. No such thing as or accommodation for honour killing even exists in Napoleonic criminal code. Nor should it.
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My certain hunch is that premeditated First degree murder is indeed against the law in France. No such thing as or accommodation for honour killing even exists in Napoleonic criminal code. Nor should it.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 00:47 last edited by@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
My certain hunch is that premeditated First degree murder is indeed against the law in France. No such thing as or accommodation for honour killing even exists in Napoleonic criminal code. Nor should it.
It doesn't under the Napoleonic Code I live under.
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wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 00:55 last edited by
No criminal charge for murder? I doubt it. Just stop with the BS trying to justify the unjustifiable. The practice of virgin certification in a secular liberal democracy is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
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No criminal charge for murder? I doubt it. Just stop with the BS trying to justify the unjustifiable. The practice of virgin certification in a secular liberal democracy is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 00:57 last edited by@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
No criminal charge for murder? I doubt it. Just stop with the BS trying to justify the unjustifiable. The practice of virgin certification in a secular liberal democracy is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
Read what I wrote.
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wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 01:08 last edited by
Quebec is also under Napoleonic code for civil cases, criminal is all whole other matter. Read what I wrote. Premeditated murder is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
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Quebec is also under Napoleonic code for civil cases, criminal is all whole other matter. Read what I wrote. Premeditated murder is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 01:31 last edited by@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Quebec is also under Napoleonic code for civil cases, criminal is all whole other matter. Read what I wrote. Premeditated murder is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
Let's underline that. It's premeditated murder.
Thank you, Renauda.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
Quebec is also under Napoleonic code for civil cases, criminal is all whole other matter. Read what I wrote. Premeditated murder is wholly unacceptable. Full stop.
Let's underline that. It's premeditated murder.
Thank you, Renauda.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 02:23 last edited byYou are most welcome, Brenda. There is no other way to describe so called honour killings other than premeditated murder.
We've even ahd them here:
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You are most welcome, Brenda. There is no other way to describe so called honour killings other than premeditated murder.
We've even ahd them here:
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 02:23 last edited byThis post is deleted! -
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 02:27 last edited by Jolly 4 Apr 2021, 02:30
No such thing as or accommodation for honour killing even exists in Napoleonic criminal code.
It doesn't under the Napoleonic Code I live under.
In other words in either the French Napoleonic Code or the Louisiana Napoleonic Code (we are the only state so governed) homicide is a chargeable offense.
Now, you can get your panties unbunched, since you now know what I wrote.
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wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 04:21 last edited by
You can put your own knickers away, I could care less what Napoleonic code you live under. This discussion was about France.
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You can put your own knickers away, I could care less what Napoleonic code you live under. This discussion was about France.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 05:30 last edited by@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
You can put your own knickers away, I could care less what Napoleonic code you live under. This discussion was about France.
There are two common systems of law in North America, English Common Law and the Napoleonic Code. The NP, as you well know, has its origins in France. Therefore, the way the law works in Louisiana and Quebec is very similar to French law.
As such, there is no common law precedent, but an enacted code that can be original in intent and scope of punishment, as long as it does not run afoul of the French Constitution. I'm no expert on the French Constitution and I highly doubt you are, either.
However, I know enough to know that the French Constitution does decree a separation of church and state, and gives its citizens Freedom of Religion.
As has previously been stated (by me), the Koran does not explicitly call for a virgin bride. But many Muslims from the ME and North Africa do follow the custom.
Now, whether you, or anybody else thinks that is a barbaric custom, I don't give a shit. I'm not in favor of it, but if a group or religion wants to engage in the practice, have at it. I see no reason where it has a detrimental effect upon society and if they want to practice it in their religion, have at it. I don't see where it is any if the French government's business or where the state has an overriding concern.
Again, as I have previously stated, as long as people are not forced to do so, I suspect the nation of France has far more pressing problems.
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@renauda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
You can put your own knickers away, I could care less what Napoleonic code you live under. This discussion was about France.
There are two common systems of law in North America, English Common Law and the Napoleonic Code. The NP, as you well know, has its origins in France. Therefore, the way the law works in Louisiana and Quebec is very similar to French law.
As such, there is no common law precedent, but an enacted code that can be original in intent and scope of punishment, as long as it does not run afoul of the French Constitution. I'm no expert on the French Constitution and I highly doubt you are, either.
However, I know enough to know that the French Constitution does decree a separation of church and state, and gives its citizens Freedom of Religion.
As has previously been stated (by me), the Koran does not explicitly call for a virgin bride. But many Muslims from the ME and North Africa do follow the custom.
Now, whether you, or anybody else thinks that is a barbaric custom, I don't give a shit. I'm not in favor of it, but if a group or religion wants to engage in the practice, have at it. I see no reason where it has a detrimental effect upon society and if they want to practice it in their religion, have at it. I don't see where it is any if the French government's business or where the state has an overriding concern.
Again, as I have previously stated, as long as people are not forced to do so, I suspect the nation of France has far more pressing problems.
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@jolly These young women are often forced to do this. Even if they try to escape, their fathers and brothers will hunt for them and kill them.
wrote on 4 Apr 2021, 12:48 last edited by@brenda said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:
@jolly These young women are often forced to do this. Even if they try to escape, their fathers and brothers will hunt for them and kill them.
Then address the force. That is illegal. Heck, bring back the guillotine, and invite the public for a picnic and execution, same as would be done in Saudi Arabia.
But when you start down the slippery slope of criminalizing religious behavior, at what point do you lose freedom of religion?
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