French Government Says No to Virginity Test

[Axtremus]

French government condemns reality TV 'virginity test'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56600958

“A clause in France's Separatism Law - which is currently before the Senate - makes it illegal for doctors to issue virginity certificates. The article is aimed primarily at France's Muslim community, where some families insist on proof of virginity before marriage. The extent of the practice is disputed.

In the text voted by the Assembly, doctors who issue certificates would risk a year in jail and a €15,000 fine (£12,800; $17,600). Non-medical professionals who carry out virginity tests, even with the consent of the woman, would risk being charged with rape.”

[Jolly]

Why the big deal?

If the Muslim community wants it, who cares? What harm does it do to the French people, if the practice exists?

[Catseye3]

@jolly I mostly agree, except . . . it might be that there's resistance to the law by a significant number of Muslim women. And Muslims who are also French citizens are a part of the French people.

[Doctor Phibes]

It's an appalling concept. The woman presumably knows whether she's a virgin or not. It's nobody else's business.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

It's an appalling concept. The woman presumably knows whether she's a virgin or not. It's nobody else's business.

Which is fine by me. But I'm not Muslim.

I can see forcing them to change some things like the burka, since that can hinder identification, but the virginity stuff is not a detriment to society.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

It's an appalling concept. The woman presumably knows whether she's a virgin or not. It's nobody else's business.

And let's expand this one a bit...Why is virginity a bad concept?

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

It's an appalling concept. The woman presumably knows whether she's a virgin or not. It's nobody else's business.

Which is fine by me. But I'm not Muslim.

I can see forcing them to change some things like the burka, since that can hinder identification, but the virginity stuff is not a detriment to society.

It's at odds with the values of French society. You're always saying that immigrants should assimilate. This would be a good opportunity.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

It's an appalling concept. The woman presumably knows whether she's a virgin or not. It's nobody else's business.

Which is fine by me. But I'm not Muslim.

I can see forcing them to change some things like the burka, since that can hinder identification, but the virginity stuff is not a detriment to society.

It's at odds with the values of French society. You're always saying that immigrants should assimilate. This would be a good opportunity.

I do believe immigrants ought to assimilate, but this a cultural practice where I can find no downside to French society.

How does it negatively impact other French citizens?

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

And let's expand this one a bit...Why is virginity a bad concept?

That's not the question you should be asking. The question you should be asking is what are the consequences of a failed test.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

And let's expand this one a bit...Why is virginity a bad concept?

That's not the question you should be asking. The question you should be asking is what are the consequences of a failed test.

I suspect not a lot, except in isolated incidents. Then, the law can deal with those incidents.

I also suspect many young women with virginity certificates may not be virgins.

[Catseye3]

It could also be a way for French lawmakers to discourage Muslim immigration.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

I suspect not a lot, except in isolated incidents.

Then what's the point of the test?

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

I also suspect many young women with virginity certificates may not be virgins.

Then what's the point of the test?

[Jolly]

@catseye3 said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

It could also be a way for French lawmakers to discourage Muslim immigration.

Could be...

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

I suspect not a lot, except in isolated incidents. Then, the law can deal with those incidents.

How is the law going to deal with the fact that nobody wants to marry some poor girl because she failed a test, and that she becomes an outcast to her family?

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

@jolly said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

I also suspect many young women with virginity certificates may not be virgins.

Then what's the point of the test?

Cultural.

[Doctor Phibes]

Pretty much all the anti-Islamic sentiment that I've read here over the years is associated with terrorism, a practice that has been carried out by a miniscule minority of the muslim population.

If you want to criticise something that a much larger proportion of Muslims engage in, as well as those of other faiths, it should be in their attitudes to women's rights. And yes, it's not really an Islamic thing, but a cultural one, as the awful rape statistics in India amongst Hindus can attest.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in French Government Says No to Virginity Test:

Pretty much all the anti-Islamic sentiment that I've read here over the years is associated with terrorism, a practice that has been carried out by a miniscule minority of the muslim population.

If you want to criticise something that a much larger proportion of Muslims engage in, as well as those of other faiths, it should be in their attitudes to women's rights. And yes, it's not really an Islamic thing, but a cultural one, as the awful rape statistics in India amongst Hindus can attest.

A French Muslim women does not have to participate. She can tell her family to piss up a rope, for all I care. The Koran does not specifically call for virgin brides, even if the writer was screwing a virgin child bride.

The practice does not bother me, until at such time they use force or other unlawful tactics to ensure compliance.

[Copper]

The government should not be forbidding this.

It might be stupid or cruel, but there doesn't seem to be forced participation.

If they want to do it, I think it is nobody's business, certainly not the government's.

[Renauda]

The government should be forbidding this.

It is stupid, tribal and cruelly invasive, and I am more than certain it is forced on Muslim women and girls.

If Muslims want to do it, they can consult a licensed physician practicing in a Muslim country but so long as they reside in France it is the business of French government whether or not to permit medical certification of a woman's virginity.