Boulder Shooting
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@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
@catseye3 said in Boulder Shooting:
Frank Bruni: "Eight dead in Atlanta. Ten dead in Boulder, Colo.
"Is this what returning to life as usual in America means?
"The Democratic majority leader of the Colorado State Senate, Stephen Fenberg, suggested as much, and I’m not taking issue with it or him. Quite the opposite. He’s gut-wrenchingly right, and his words, like every one of those 18 victims, should give us enormous pause and fill us with even more shame."
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^He makes a good point, except for the last bit. I don't feel personal shame about it. I don't feel shame when some brainshriek posts an opinion about Trump's dickishness and then goes, "So I think I'll go kill a bunch of people".
I'm not sure what I should feel instead. Outrage has become humdrum, sussing the underpinnings is too hard . . . I don't know. But shame isn't the way. I got enough of that shit in the years 2017 to 2021. It doesn't feel good, and it is nonproductive.
Rats in a cage and non-conforming rats, at that. Mentally unstable rats.
Did you know there are more people killed by knives in America every year, than by rifles? Black rifles make good news, though.
There are things we can do to address the problem, but nobody wants to work on the root causes.
The vast majority of killings are by handguns.
Rifles seem to work better for mass shootings, as well as for getting headlines.
The overall homicide rate in the US is significantly higher than those of other 'similar' western countries.
So, a key question has to be, what does America do differently from those other countries?
wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 20:48 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Boulder Shooting:
So, a key question has to be, what does America do differently from those other countries?
Can't answer that question without being accused of racism.
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@doctor-phibes said in Boulder Shooting:
So, a key question has to be, what does America do differently from those other countries?
Can't answer that question without being accused of racism.
wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 20:52 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Boulder Shooting:
Can't answer that question without being accused of racism.
That's a really good response to almost any question you don't want to answer. I'll file it for future reference.
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
Not buying it, Jolly. Not buying it anymore.
I do.
The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.
Now, take that simple fact and work with it. There are ways to decrease gun violence without onerous gun control policies.
But, to throw you some red meat...I would rather live in a free society with its consequences, than live in a safe society without abundant freedom.
wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 21:28 last edited by Renauda@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
I do.
The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.That I had no doubt, but I still don't buy into it.
Personal firearms are ingrained into the national identity, regardless of what the 2 Amendment meant 250 years ago before there was a standing national army, smokeless powder and breach loading semi automatic weapons.
Besides these events are no longer mass shootings and murders. Merely trifling consequences and little more than 2nd Amendment tragedies.
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@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
I do.
The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.That I had no doubt, but I still don't buy into it.
Personal firearms are ingrained into the national identity, regardless of what the 2 Amendment meant 250 years ago before there was a standing national army, smokeless powder and breach loading semi automatic weapons.
Besides these events are no longer mass shootings and murders. Merely trifling consequences and little more than 2nd Amendment tragedies.
wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 21:31 last edited by@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
I do.
The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.That I had no doubt, but I still don't buy into it.
Personal firearms are ingrained into the national identity, regardless of what the 2 Amendment meant 250 years ago before there was a standing national army, smokeless powder and breach loading semi automatic weapons.
Besides these events are no longer mass shootings and murders. Merely trifling consequences and little more than 2nd Amendment tragedies.
250 years ago, if I had wanted a cannon, the only question asked would be, "Where did you put it?" .
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
I do.
The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Period.That I had no doubt, but I still don't buy into it.
Personal firearms are ingrained into the national identity, regardless of what the 2 Amendment meant 250 years ago before there was a standing national army, smokeless powder and breach loading semi automatic weapons.
Besides these events are no longer mass shootings and murders. Merely trifling consequences and little more than 2nd Amendment tragedies.
250 years ago, if I had wanted a cannon, the only question asked would be, "Where did you put it?" .
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@doctor-phibes said in Boulder Shooting:
So, a key question has to be, what does America do differently from those other countries?
Can't answer that question without being accused of racism.
wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 21:38 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Boulder Shooting:
@doctor-phibes said in Boulder Shooting:
So, a key question has to be, what does America do differently from those other countries?
Can't answer that question without being accused of racism.
I was thinking more along the lines that your cheese is a bit shit.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2021, 22:49 last edited by
@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
Indeed, it may have to be commandeered into state militia service.
Did I ever tell you I used to own a Sten?
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
Indeed, it may have to be commandeered into state militia service.
Did I ever tell you I used to own a Sten?
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 00:33 last edited byDid I ever tell you I received my Reservist rifle training on an FNC2?
I could care less whether you owned a plumber's nightmare legally or illegally. After my reservist years my preference for weapons was always Marlin levers in either .444 or 45/70 - given the bush and close range moose and bear hunting around here. No need or use for semi auto hunting weapons.
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Did I ever tell you I received my Reservist rifle training on an FNC2?
I could care less whether you owned a plumber's nightmare legally or illegally. After my reservist years my preference for weapons was always Marlin levers in either .444 or 45/70 - given the bush and close range moose and bear hunting around here. No need or use for semi auto hunting weapons.
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 02:02 last edited by@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
Did I ever tell you I received my Reservist rifle training on an FNC2?
I could care less whether you owned a plumber's nightmare legally or illegally. After my reservist years my preference for weapons was always Marlin levers in either .444 or 45/70 - given the bush and close range moose and bear hunting around here. No need or use for semi auto hunting weapons.
The fact is, I could own a Sten legally. Or a Thompson. Or any number of automatic weapons. I have a friend who has a Boy's anti-tank rifle.
You can't.
I'm not even sure you could own an AR, if you wanted to.
And no, I don't normally hunt with a semi-auto, but I have rolled three deer at one time with a SKS. But most of the time it's a Model 70 in .270
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
Did I ever tell you I received my Reservist rifle training on an FNC2?
I could care less whether you owned a plumber's nightmare legally or illegally. After my reservist years my preference for weapons was always Marlin levers in either .444 or 45/70 - given the bush and close range moose and bear hunting around here. No need or use for semi auto hunting weapons.
The fact is, I could own a Sten legally. Or a Thompson. Or any number of automatic weapons. I have a friend who has a Boy's anti-tank rifle.
You can't.
I'm not even sure you could own an AR, if you wanted to.
And no, I don't normally hunt with a semi-auto, but I have rolled three deer at one time with a SKS. But most of the time it's a Model 70 in .270
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 04:15 last edited by Renauda@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
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@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 06:18 last edited by@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 15:20 last edited by@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
That doesn't happen anymore.
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 15:26 last edited by@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
The courts? But ultimately, the strength of democratic sentiment in your citizenry.
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 15:43 last edited by Renauda@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
Parliamentary governance reinforced by robust institutions supporting that constitutional tradition. In short, "peace, order and good government".
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@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
You can't.
You are correct, I cannot legally own an automatic weapon. Soon, semi-auto military style weapons like the AR will also be restricted if not outright prohibited. And nor is it an issue for me either.
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 16:28 last edited by@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
Me too.
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@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
Parliamentary governance reinforced by robust institutions supporting that constitutional tradition. In short, "peace, order and good government".
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 16:58 last edited by@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
@jolly said in Boulder Shooting:
What is your (collective your) defense against a repressive and tyrannical government?
Parliamentary governance reinforced by robust institutions supporting that constitutional tradition. In short, "peace, order and good government".
And how long does that last? It is the natural propensity for power to consolidate, and as the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Man seems not to be able to help himself.
I think Jefferson was right, in his view about an occasional revolution...
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@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
Me too.
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 16:59 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Boulder Shooting:
@renauda said in Boulder Shooting:
In fact, the right of firearm ownership does not even enter into my definition or measurement of freedom and liberty. And to be perfectly frank, nor should it in my opinion.
Me too.
All power emanates from the barrel of a gun.
I think it won't be too long, and the Chinese will prove that point. Again.
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wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 17:01 last edited by
If you chaps ever start trying to shoot at your government with your AR-15 collections, you're going to get so fucked.
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If you chaps ever start trying to shoot at your government with your AR-15 collections, you're going to get so fucked.
wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 17:05 last edited by@doctor-phibes said in Boulder Shooting:
If you chaps ever start trying to shoot at your government with your AR-15 collections, you're going to get so fucked.
Not necessarily.
Two reasons...
- If it comes to that, there are enough weapons and enough variance in terrain to make Vietnam or Afghanistan look like a Sunday picnic.
- If it comes to that, I suspect the military will be fractured, and we all know who makes up most of the military. HINT: They didn't graduate from Berkley.
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wrote on 26 Mar 2021, 17:11 last edited by
I don't really understand the fascination so many Americans seem to have with this weird fantasy. If they want to go and live in a cave, they can just do it, they don't need a war.