54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 03:02 last edited by jon-nyc
This doesn’t sound good. But I don’t know how common they are sans Covid.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 03:30 last edited by
No.
But I'm no doc...
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 03:38 last edited by
Translate plz
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 05:01 last edited by
@89th it means that if this holds true with other testing, than 30% of the US is going to need CT Scans, and almost 1/6 of the US could be facing hard times in 10 years.
What I will hold onto first is that the cases on the ship have shown incredibly weird results with the rest of the world. I wonder what the viral load on that ship was really like.
What I will hold onto second is that there is an excellent chance the nodules aren’t what they would appear to be.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:13 last edited by
Sent to my radiologist friend.
It seems to suggest this is a more accurate screening tool. I don’t know what “subclnical” means in the long term and what happens to those areas in the lungs downstream. As in if the patients had another CT today what would you find?
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:19 last edited by
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:24 last edited by
@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
No.
But I'm no doc...
What Jolly said. Very unusual to see this.
However, an x-ray (and that's really what a CT scan is) is a picture, not a diagnosis. "Ground glass" is a sign of COVID-19, as well as ARDS and other pulmonary pathologies. Without knowing how symptomatic these people are, or without following them for a long time, it's impossible to make any kind of judgment. Also, it's not uncommon for X-Ray to lag behind symptoms for several days.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:29 last edited by
I would assume 100% of symptomatic cases had CT’s like this and worse. Second that’s been known for a long time.
I wonder if this is about how asymptomatic pass on CV because they don’t present clinically and can infect others for a longish time. Finally does other testing work as well as a CT.
Maybe the argument is Trump needs to become the CT King.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:36 last edited by jon-nyc
My concern is whether there are any long term effects of this. Right now the feeling is there are at least as many “asymptomatic” people as symptomatic, and that other than a temporary contagion threat they’re fine. What if that isn’t true?
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My concern is whether there are any long term effects of this. Right now the feeling is there are at least as many “asymptomatic” people as symptomatic, and that other than a temporary contagion threat they’re fine. What if that isn’t true?
wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:45 last edited by@jon-nyc said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
My concern is whether there are any long term effects of this. Right now the feeling is there are at least as many “asymptomatic” people as symptomatic, and that other than a temporary contagion threat they’re fine. What if that isn’t true?
It’s not even discussed in the piece. If 100% of mildly symptomatic have “ground glass” your concern would be for anyone who had come into contact with CV. Eventually that will be almost the entire planet.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 11:51 last edited by
That latter will only be true if our leaders really fuck up.
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@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
No.
But I'm no doc...
What Jolly said. Very unusual to see this.
However, an x-ray (and that's really what a CT scan is) is a picture, not a diagnosis. "Ground glass" is a sign of COVID-19, as well as ARDS and other pulmonary pathologies. Without knowing how symptomatic these people are, or without following them for a long time, it's impossible to make any kind of judgment. Also, it's not uncommon for X-Ray to lag behind symptoms for several days.
wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 13:04 last edited by@George-K said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
No.
But I'm no doc...
What Jolly said. Very unusual to see this.
However, an x-ray (and that's really what a CT scan is) is a picture, not a diagnosis. "Ground glass" is a sign of COVID-19, as well as ARDS and other pulmonary pathologies. Without knowing how symptomatic these people are, or without following them for a long time, it's impossible to make any kind of judgment. Also, it's not uncommon for X-Ray to lag behind symptoms for several days.
I've heard some docs say they trust their ears as much as the xray in some early pneumonia cases.
How effective is a stethoscope on lung sounds?
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@George-K said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
No.
But I'm no doc...
What Jolly said. Very unusual to see this.
However, an x-ray (and that's really what a CT scan is) is a picture, not a diagnosis. "Ground glass" is a sign of COVID-19, as well as ARDS and other pulmonary pathologies. Without knowing how symptomatic these people are, or without following them for a long time, it's impossible to make any kind of judgment. Also, it's not uncommon for X-Ray to lag behind symptoms for several days.
I've heard some docs say they trust their ears as much as the xray in some early pneumonia cases.
How effective is a stethoscope on lung sounds?
wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 13:22 last edited by@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
I've heard some docs say they trust their ears as much as the xray in some early pneumonia cases.
How effective is a stethoscope on lung sounds?
Depends on the user. However, it's a lot easier to hear stuff in the lungs with a stethoscope than in the heart, which tends to be more subtle in the "less severe" conditions. At least, that was the case for me. There are all kinds of different sounds that may represent different things: rales, rhochi, wheezes, crackles.
That said, if you want to listen to lungs, you have to listen to lungs. That means a lot more than putting a stethoscope on someones back and listening through his shirt in four spots. Listen, for several breaths to each lobe in the back. Then do it all again from the front.
Basically, you have to pay attention, and take your time.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 14:25 last edited by
When my lungs were at their worst, I remember several times when some GP would listen to them for a long time. There was no diagnosis to be preformed, I was on a transplant list. They just had never, or rarely, heard such damaged lungs and were satisfying their curiosity. It didn't really bother me.
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@Jolly said in 54% of asymptomatic Diamond Princess patients had ground glass abnormalities on CT:
I've heard some docs say they trust their ears as much as the xray in some early pneumonia cases.
How effective is a stethoscope on lung sounds?
Depends on the user. However, it's a lot easier to hear stuff in the lungs with a stethoscope than in the heart, which tends to be more subtle in the "less severe" conditions. At least, that was the case for me. There are all kinds of different sounds that may represent different things: rales, rhochi, wheezes, crackles.
That said, if you want to listen to lungs, you have to listen to lungs. That means a lot more than putting a stethoscope on someones back and listening through his shirt in four spots. Listen, for several breaths to each lobe in the back. Then do it all again from the front.
Basically, you have to pay attention, and take your time.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 16:01 last edited by
Radiologist friend who read article said trouble is these findings are non specific and can be seen with any viral pneumonia and even non infectious conditions...been seeing ground GGO in asymptotic patients who had scans for other reasons long before this outbreak.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 16:19 last edited by
Over 50%? Of patients reporting no respiratory symptoms?
That would surprise me.
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 16:33 last edited by
Nasty virus, this thing. Still want to throw things wide open?
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wrote on 23 Apr 2020, 16:36 last edited by
A google search found this.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25082478
Most common cause of GGO is pulmonary edema aka fluid in the lungs. Often CHF.
Now if you had the breakout of the crew that had GGO you might be on to something more significant.
I have no idea if GGO goes away naturally. I guess someone can google that.
